Gender DIscrimination - HR FIndings
maggief
9 Posts
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 03-28-04 AT 10:35AM (CST)[/font][br][br][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 03-28-04 AT 10:34 AM (CST)[/font]
I am a 32 yr old female. I recently filed a complaint against my boss for gender discrimination. I work for a "boys club" in which my boss and another manager on my team have made various remarks about peoples age, sex, and race. Our outside sales team consists of 18 white young males (26-32 in age), and two females. A co-worker of mine filed an age discrimination complain 1 1/2 years ago. He also brought up comments about gender discrimination in his complaint. After the investigation found nothing, the first woman sales person was hired (token female).
Six people over the age of 45 have been forced out by my boss, leaving us with our white young male sales team. All new hires are young, white males. I applied for an outside sales position but was denied.
I just recently moved from customer service to an inside sales position. I found out that I am making 1/3 of what a male in a similar position was making.
I brought all this to HR.
Their findings - they stated I was dilusional, there was no discrimination, they downplayed my job roles, embellished the other persons role, told me that everything was my fault, and that the reason why I wasn't advancing and receiving the pay I should is because I am unpopular with a couple people and have had bad performance.
On the contrary - I have never been given a review with bad performance, I have received all but 1 of my quarterly bonuses over the 2 1/2 years of employment, I have received some opportunity, and yearly pay increases. But again - I make 1/3 of the other person who had a similar job (he was new coming into the company and made $120K). All the males on my team make $80+.
HR mentioned many things that were based on opinion and stated some things as factual, that were actually false. I sent a rebuttal to their findings and have heard nothing. I asked for proof of their findings - and received nothing.
Now a third complaint is about to be filed by the only older female sales rep we had.
Why the coverup? This is the second complaint against my boss (soon to be third).
I am going to the EEOC and my attorney stated
"HR people eat unrepresented employee victims for lunch"
Any help or advice?? I feel like I have no choice but to file a lawsuit.
My attorney thought it was odd that with all the facts and witnesses I presented - that they would put me on the defensive by blaming me. Was this a crucial error on their part? Because all it did was back me against the wall!
Any help would be appreciated!
PS - I have a degree in HR!
Thanks in advance for your comments!
I am a 32 yr old female. I recently filed a complaint against my boss for gender discrimination. I work for a "boys club" in which my boss and another manager on my team have made various remarks about peoples age, sex, and race. Our outside sales team consists of 18 white young males (26-32 in age), and two females. A co-worker of mine filed an age discrimination complain 1 1/2 years ago. He also brought up comments about gender discrimination in his complaint. After the investigation found nothing, the first woman sales person was hired (token female).
Six people over the age of 45 have been forced out by my boss, leaving us with our white young male sales team. All new hires are young, white males. I applied for an outside sales position but was denied.
I just recently moved from customer service to an inside sales position. I found out that I am making 1/3 of what a male in a similar position was making.
I brought all this to HR.
Their findings - they stated I was dilusional, there was no discrimination, they downplayed my job roles, embellished the other persons role, told me that everything was my fault, and that the reason why I wasn't advancing and receiving the pay I should is because I am unpopular with a couple people and have had bad performance.
On the contrary - I have never been given a review with bad performance, I have received all but 1 of my quarterly bonuses over the 2 1/2 years of employment, I have received some opportunity, and yearly pay increases. But again - I make 1/3 of the other person who had a similar job (he was new coming into the company and made $120K). All the males on my team make $80+.
HR mentioned many things that were based on opinion and stated some things as factual, that were actually false. I sent a rebuttal to their findings and have heard nothing. I asked for proof of their findings - and received nothing.
Now a third complaint is about to be filed by the only older female sales rep we had.
Why the coverup? This is the second complaint against my boss (soon to be third).
I am going to the EEOC and my attorney stated
"HR people eat unrepresented employee victims for lunch"
Any help or advice?? I feel like I have no choice but to file a lawsuit.
My attorney thought it was odd that with all the facts and witnesses I presented - that they would put me on the defensive by blaming me. Was this a crucial error on their part? Because all it did was back me against the wall!
Any help would be appreciated!
PS - I have a degree in HR!
Thanks in advance for your comments!
Comments
(1) What do you mean by a 'degree in HR'?
(2) What do you mean by a 'boys club' and what sort of industry are you in at what job title?
(3) How would you so conveniently know the ages and salaries of all the young white boys? Also, you mention a coworker, a male, who filed an age and gender discrimination complaint. How does that work if he's also male?
(4) With your degree, why would you be working in a customer service position?
(5) Is it my imagination or are you obsessed with sex discrimination, a predominance of young white boys, unequal pay, token hiring, being denied a job, being viewed as less than credible by HR, and being told you're delusional and upopular? Tell me if these things are not evident in your post.
(6) With the degree you say you have, why are you not leaving this job and going into HR where you can have an impact on correcting all the sorts of problems you recognize where you are?
(7) If you have a lawyer, why are you posting your question on a public forum?
(8) You say, "I am going to the EEOC". What's the holdup?
I tend to be rather skeptical at times and must admit that I find your post rather disingenuous. If I am wrong, you have my apology.
Note: The preceeding is my personal opinion and has no value beyond that. Although it may be 'sorta offensive' or 'indeed offensive' to someone out there, it is offered without regard to that possibility. Should you find yourself alarmed by my post, you may privately mail me to protest or you may alert the principal's office. x:-)
2. Boys Club - meaning everyone in my group is a male (except two female sales reps - one who was aquired, and one hired after the age discrimination complaint filed 1 1/2 years ago.
3. I worked in customer service/sales support to the sales reps before moving into my current role. I have met them all, and generally know all their ages. The hiring manager has made comments about the type of sales rep he wants "young, athletic etc"
How would anyone know if they are being paid unequally? It is not a secret - people talk. The man who filed an age discrimination complaint, brought up comments made by our boss -in referrence to "getting him out because he was an old geezer" and "that he would never hire a woman as a sales rep" - he only brought up the gender comment to show overall discrimation.
5. Not obsessed - just telling you the facts. My purpose of this post was to find out HR's position. Clearly their position is to side with the company. There has been two complaints against the same person, yet he is allowed to continue employment. Company liability? I would think so. A third complaint (by the aquired older sales woman mentioned above) has been filed, but I don't know what is going on. Direct comment made by my boss about her "she's too old". Eventually she was forced to leave because the environment became too much for her to bear.
6. Because in the state I live, I would have to start out in a position that paid 1/2 of what I am making now.
7. Again - I am trying to understand HR's position.
8. There is no holdup. I exhausted my internal options, the findings meeting with HR was a week ago and I have a meeting with the EEOC in two days.
Disengenous? HR has not been involved in my bosses hiring, termination, promotion or advancement practices. I have listened to many discriminatory comments over the past 2 years - but it never directly affected me, only offended me. Now that I have been directly affected, I speak out.
Note: The preceeding is my personal opinion and has no value beyond that. Although it may be 'sorta offensive' or 'indeed offensive' to someone out there, it is offered without regard to that possibility. Should you find yourself alarmed by my post, you may privately mail me to protest or you may alert the principal's office. x:-)
So - what do you think HR's intent was?
I have 7 witnesses - who have all come forward with information.
HR said it was "jokes" and "comments that really didn't intend harm".
My concern is their blantant disregard of the facts.
Thank you for your input. I really thought I was going mad when they told me it was all my fault..?@#?!
You'll get more advice and comment on Monday when others log on.
Note: The preceeding is my personal opinion and has no value beyond that. Although it may be 'sorta offensive' or 'indeed offensive' to someone out there, it is offered without regard to that possibility. Should you find yourself alarmed by my post, you may privately mail me to protest or you may alert the principal's office. x:-)
All your information is very helpful. It lacks opinion, and focuses on fact - which is what I am looking for. I have filed my claim with the EEOC - now I wait until they serve the company which takes 10 days.
Let me ask you this - do I have the right to see what is in my personnel file?
May I ask HR to see my file?
I don't understand why you are so bothered. You seem to feel that you are a very bright and qualified person. If so, go get a job at a better company. Do you want to work for such hethens? If I worked for a bunch of women who treated me like crap because I'm a man, I would just leave.
As far as your lawyers advice, what else would you expect? Is he trying to sell you something or is he genuinely interested in your well being. Your HR degree should help you answer that question.
Millie
No, you are not crazy. If there have been three discrimination complaints against the company in this short amount of time, you may indeed have a valid case. Work with your attorney and don't go around the company trying to get other employees involved or on your side.
The HR group is an outside firm.
In the past week - I have had some strange things happen - I have been completely ignored by HR. I have asked for information to back up their claims. No reply. I was told they had an email from me (which I didn't send) and requested to see it. No reply. I have been casually going around the office - talking to certain people - who have expressed to me what an excellent job I do and how decent I am to work with - which is contradictory to their findings.
We can all empathize with you if you're going through what you describe, but are you certain you have your facts straight?
This is an employer board, and I generally take the position that we should not be in the position of advising employees how to make a case against their employers. There are plenty of attorneys out there to do that, and, apparently, you have one of them. IMHO
If we learn that employees are lurking on the boards, we may be forced to be less candid among ourselves...which would be an unfortunate result.
Forum police, what do you think?
Obviously, your HR department has no connection to this forum or they would not be in the mess as you described it to be. Additionally, they have not been eating enough PORK; their priorities are all PORKED up! Send the HR an e-mail and tell her/him they should come on board as a member.
May you and your company have a better and Blessed day.
PORK
Maggie
We officially frown on employee posts, and we frequently delete them - especially if we find them before anyone has responded.
We've had this debate on the board a couple of times before, and I think the consensus of everyone here at HRhero and just about all of the Forum members is that allowing employees to participate has a chilling effect on the willingness of HR professionals to be candid on the board. No offense, maggief, and thanks for the reminder that not every HR department is staffed with the kind of wise people who participate in this Forum.
Brad Forrister
Director of Publishing
M. Lee Smith Publishers
Since you already have an attorney, it should be his opinion that matters, not ours. After all, "HR people eat unrepresented employee victims for lunch"
However, I feel I must make a point of your lawyer's descrption of HR people. In my humble opinion (it looks better spelled out) HR's purpose on this green earth, is to stand for all the employees in the company. We do not cower or tremble when one of our employees is represented by an attorney.
May I digress? Is the HR team all male too? Bingo!
I've been asked by employees "aren't you here to protect the employees from the company?" That always kills me - my loyalty is to the company, that includes owners AND employees of all levels. I'm not on anyone's "side", I try to do what is legal and just plain "right".
I'm sure there are some untrained, ignorant, and even a little bit power hungry HR people out there, and some who have difficulty admitting they could possibly be wrong or not have the answers, but I have yet to meet one who would "eat an unrepresented employee victim for lunch".
I came on this site to find out what the intentions were of the HR group at my company. I have no personnel issues, no bad reviews, have received salary increases, bonuses, and some opportunity. I have had a male co-worker bring up an age discrimination complaint a year ago, had the hiring manager say out of his own mouth in front of another employee that "he wasn't going to hire someone to be a sales rep because they were too old" - he also told me that he wanted one of our only two females sales reps out because she "was too old". There are 22 men in our entire group and only 1 women besides myself. I found out from a little "bird" that a person who was doing a similar job that I am doing now made 3 times as much.
I brought this all to HR - thinking they could help me and they told me I had a distorted perception that discrimination was taking place and that why I wasn't accelerating through the company was because of my poor performance.
I wanted to find out from a group of HR professionals if this seemed like a massive coverup - or as my attorney put it "the worst maskover" he had ever seen.
I am trying to understand why HR would do this - simply to save the companies but or iritate and provoke an employee into filing a lawsuit because it certainly seems like they want just that.
No - and the HR group is all female. They are an on-site HR consultant group.
Thank you.
Now that this post has come full circle, I have to agree with the sentiments of ritaanz and others: I don't think the Employers Forum is really the place to find what you're looking for. Unfortunately, you only know half of the story, so it's impossible for us to help you figure out what your company's HR department and management are thinking.
The EEOC and your lawyer probably can be a lot better help than those of us on the Forum.
Best of luck to you. I hope it all turns out well.
James Sokolowski
HRhero.com
From experience, I've learned not to give advice until both sides have presented their case. I've also known bad employees who were successful in recruiting a jury in the workplace.