And my final question is, simply, (and I guess what my fried brain has been trying to say) Is there anything that we as PAYING members can do to alter this decision? Yes or no will suffice.
Being a computer zero, not hero, I do appreciate what the staff has done to allow this phenomonon to occur.
Most of the issues that Brian, Customer Service, and I deal with are questions and problems that individual Forum members e-mail directly to us, so you never see them on the Forum. Stuff like the daily digest, login problems, requests to remove their own thread that may embarrass their company, etc.
Most issues take only 10 minutes, but there are a lot of them, and some take much longer. There are a lot of people who would tell you that I took several days to respond to their e-mail because I didn't have time.
We haven't decided exactly what non-members will be able to see after the conversion. They won't be able to read all the messages - just some sort of sample.
Tony: I for one appreciate the opportunity and your response to this ever growing thread, thanks to balloonman we have spent much time reading and waiting for an answer to, why. With greater customer service does that mean ya'll will throw a BBQ Pork Dinner for us all at James's estate in order to reward "Dandy Don" on his 7,000th post???
Hope all of our current players will find a way to continue as a subscriber and participant. I will be here with my "Golden Juices", By the way the dose is now valued at $7.00 per. Send me a money order and I'll send you your own packaged dose of a $30,000.00 highly bred registered boar.
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-25-04 AT 03:14PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Let's see, the boar is worth $30,000 but he don't know it. He will have to look at a Penthouse or it's swine equivalent at least once per day for 11.74 years at seven bucks a pop to realize his value. I suppose if he's 'college aged', you could 'collect' three per day and send him to the bacon mill in 3.9 years. So, the old guy has no idea that the more fun he has with that machine yankin' him, the quicker he becomes chops and bacon.
But, please, do tell us, who has the un-envied duty of making use of the golden juice? And is it an 8-hour shift? I'm not applying, mind you. I'm just wondering how they unwind at the end of the day. I've wondered the same about a proctologist.
I guess I didn't do a very good job last night explaining the whole money/staffing issue. Maybe I can be more succinct.
As the Forum has grown in size and complexity, we no longer have adequate staff to operate it in the manner we'd like. This includes customer service, technical issues, and improvements. I don't have time to participate on the Forum much (which might be a good thing), and it's usually at night, long after my eight hours have passed.
I really can't see us hiring more staff to provide a free service to the general public. So the only alternative was to limit the Forum to subscribers.
The point I was trying to make last night was that we don't expect this change to bring in much new revenue from new subscriptions.
For the most part, newsletters are a dime a dozen. Well, maybe $277 a dozen. There's only so many ways a labor law newsletter can be written and MLS doesn't have any grip on 'super sizing' theirs. I see tons of them and there's no basic difference. Most are online now which saves the publisher thousands of dollars in color print and distribution costs. So, they're very generic and they all provide the same updates and mundane-ness and they serve as the same advertisements for attorneys.
I'm posting the following remark on all three of the threads going on simultaneously now about this same subject, that of restricting Forum access. Some have said there are other sites where we can join up and continue our association and information exchange. Well, what are they? List them. I'll gladly cancel my subscription to the MLSmith Newsletter and get on the bus with the rest of y'all and find another area where we can spread out our blankets and continue the picnic. List them. x:-)
Per Don, I'd be interested in other sites also. I won't be subscribing and although I have viewed the forum for around 3 years now, I haven't participated that much. I would however miss it.
James, here is something to ponder. If some of the more esteemed intellectual posters such as Balloonman and Gillian can no longer participate, then I rise to the intellectual top. That should scare you into rethinking this whole thing.
I like the suggestion of a couple other posters. Charge a fee for access to the forum only. Say, $39.95 for an annual subscription or $29.95 per year if you sign up for 2 years. These people would have access to the forum only and not the other on-line products.
>James, here is something to ponder. If some of >the more esteemed intellectual posters such as >Balloonman and Gillian can no longer >participate, then I rise to the intellectual >top.
Raymond: You won't catch up with Sam on her worst day. Just something about a woman with a man's monicker. She'll throw you to the mat every time, son.
I always thought of the arrangement like this: I will ask questions when I need help or advice, and in return I will voluntarily answer questions and offer advice for others. There are some basic questions posted and I have taken a minute to answer a few. I did this because I wanted to help and I think of it as payment for the times when others have helped me. I think that many of the others on this forum feel the same way and I suspect that is why the forum is successful.
I think it is also why we rarely see the type of response that alienates everyone, the "Why don't you just look in the archive? Are you lazy?" and "That's such a basic question I can't believe you're in HR."
Now, if I must pay to participate in the forum, the deal breaks down. If I pay money to participate, I will no longer feel obligated to contribute or help others. I will not pay money for the privelege of answering somebody else's question. IF SOMEONE IS PAYING TO POSE A QUESTION, THE PERSON OR ORGANIZATION GETTING PAID SHOULD ANSWER THE QUESTION, NOT ME. I would also expect others to feel the same way about answering my questions.
For jokes and very opinionated stuff that argument may not apply, but I can find it elsewhere.
Mr. Creosote: Sorry you feel that way. This forum is a creation of MLS to which we HRs have the access of the forum for whatever enhancement or degradation of our purposes. My membership is certainly for the benefit of the company and my brain and experiences are for the use of our society of HRs. My ability to add to the postings or take from the postings whatever information is there! some I take and some I leave it where it lies, on the screen. If you are taking and posting on this forum your membership should be required and paid. If you want to sit on the side line and read the postings, then that is your and your companies'call. What you don't ever receive is the personal one on one exchanges that go on without your eyes seeing and reading the happening. I have provided a list of 32 of our members personnel documents and procedures for their personal use. Some have provided me with theirs for my purposes. These contacts would never have taken place were it not for the forum! I hate to see anyone leave the forum, but you know what you will easily be replaced and the psychology of this forum will change and we will evolve and be better for the force!!!
Sorry to see anyone go, but we all will some day, but don't stop eating MO PORK!
Pork
James it is time to disconnect me from the "Gongs" from this thread, please. My last post on this thread.
I don't subscribe either and I probably still won't once the change is in effect.
If they offered JUST THE FORUM for a small fee I WOULD GLADLY PAY IT!! This is an excellent idea and I hope MLS offers it.
I love the Forum and even though I don't post that much anymore I still check it regularly (although I've been having problems accessing it lately). I just got promoted with my company and I know this forum played a part in that.
Please consider charging for just Forum only access. I might even post more if you offered that, and no, that's not a threat. x:)
James, James, James. Now you've done it. I know it's comes with the territory, but you make it sound so fair and reasonable. But it's not. It is painful.
We, as HR pros, know what needs to be done to justify an addition to the headcount. Never have I suggested that we layoff people so that we can add to the staff. By closing the Forum to non subscribers, you are in effect getting rid of them. So, with less people to service, I guess you guys will have a layoff too. Right????
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-28-04 AT 02:07PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Wow, all I did was ask a simple ? First off, James you are out of line talking about your Aunt Gertie's spandex pants! I visualized! x:o Guess that was my own fault. I had not budgeted for this when I did the budgetthis year, so lets just say I must have been optimistic about being grandfathered in. Also James, I very much understand why, as things have grown and staff has not the need for paying membership. You guys are just like porn! Everything used to be free on the internet, porn, HRHero.com, mlb radio broadcasts of games..........now they all want money! ;-) Not that I am comparing you to a peddler of porn James, cause you aint that good looking! I am going to wait for the right time to talk to our CFO, he is, good about most things, so I just need to decide how I want to pitch it, so he gives the correct answer. I intend to be around. Now as for mwild31 you made me blush! Fact is WC is my strong suit.......what I have been considered an expert at for years......and I love the challenge. Thank you for the kind word.
Hey, Balloonman, I'm glad you're coming on board. But when you ask your CFO for money for this website, you might not want to mention porn in the same conversation. x:D
I too am not a regular poster, but I am a regular reader. First, I'm evidently naive - I thought the posters were subscribers and in light of James' explanation (you get how many applications now via internet?), I can easily understand why they are narrowing to subscribers, though I too will miss those who can no longer participate. We have also had to cut periodicals - we cut to four and a couple of books for my boss. I am an HR paralegal (formerly legal assistant - "HRLASS"...) and I argued to keep the Employment Law Letter and one of the selling points was the website reference tool. I do use the publication regularly, I've been to one seminar, I use the website for a fair amount of legal research, and when I can't find exactly what I want, I often find steerage, either from the research areas or from the Forum. When I've had a tough day, the Forum makes me feel better cause I haven't had ALL those problems! I retain the publications/memberships that give me a link to the widest fields of QUALITY research material. I get as much as possible for the buck and cancel or refuse the rest. Tight and strictly practical.
I was very disappointed at this news as well, and I don't expect that I will be back. Last fall I was out of a job due to workforce reduction (and I did receive MLS newsletters there). I quickly found another job (which obviously was good, especially in this economy)but my new employer does not have internet access (I know, hard to believe in 2004!!) and so the only time I ever get to check in is evenings and weekends from home. Therefore, rarely do I respond to anyone because the subject has usually been more than addressed by the time I can get to it. My new employer also will not subscribe to MLS newsletters for many varied (and incredibly stupid) reasons, nor can I personally support the price tag. The Forum has been WONDERFUL to be a part of, for real HR reasons as well as for comic relief, and I will truly miss it! Thanks to all the regulars who have been so helpful and entertaining and ... (sniff, sniff!!) x:'(
Along the lines of Mr. Creosote's comments, I have enjoyed participating in this forum, and do credit the forum interaction as "keeping my mind alive". I have not posed questions because I am not specifically in HR, but in my profession SERVE HR professionals, and have for many years. I am in benefits compliance, and I write plan documents and amendments and maintain an expertise in all legislation concerning benefits. In this respect I believe I have contributed my knowledge to the members of this forum and their employees, and have enjoyed doing so. It's certain that my employer would consider a subscription to be the decision of its clients, and not us, as what we do is but a part of HR. As FHR said some time ago, "James, say it ain't so".
Irene, since you're not in HR, you might try one of our other newsletters that include Forum access, like our benefits newsletter. [url]www.hrhero.com/employersforum/newsletters.shtml[/url]
My initial reaction to this change was "So what?". It was announced weeks ago and mentioned as a goal for longer than that. Being a subscriber myself, I figured it really didn't affect me. I was wrong, we are losing too many people.
I have participated in several music forums and none of them have required any kind of a fee or subscription. And musicians are notoriously poor and cheap. There are literally thousands of blogs out there in the ether that one can participate on and it is completely free to the participant. The funding comes from the subscription fees paid for their publications, but anyone is allowed to participate on the blogs. I vote for reconsideration.
I am with you Ray. I initially felt the same thing, but as the list of knowledgeable posters grows, I cannot help thinking that the forum will undergo some drastic changes - and I don't think they will be for the better from my perspective.
As for the puckering being experienced in the MLS nether regions, I suspect they are prepared for a certain amount of this - even looking forward to it from a staff workload perspective.
Pork~ True, we as Forum members can be replaced, - and life goes on.
MLS owns this website, and they can do what they want - charge or not charge for access.
We, as Forum members, will do what we or our employers can afford, stay or go elsewhere.
If MLS sticks with the $277 annual subscription requirements for access , a number of current members are going to leave - I among them . Hopefully those who leave will still keep in touch via email.
OUT OF OVER 5000 THE LOSS OF A FEW WILL BE A NO BRAINER THE FORUM WILL CONTINUE.
Of course we will miss the ready reference and assured "deadlock" of a all inclusive and knowing "Dandy Don"; who can't stand it and will be back on in very short order as another twin from the dark past! He writes that he will not go, but that is one fact I would not trust coming from his fingers, He'll be there!
Comments
Being a computer zero, not hero, I do appreciate what the staff has done to allow this phenomonon to occur.
Most of the issues that Brian, Customer Service, and I deal with are questions and problems that individual Forum members e-mail directly to us, so you never see them on the Forum. Stuff like the daily digest, login problems, requests to remove their own thread that may embarrass their company, etc.
Most issues take only 10 minutes, but there are a lot of them, and some take much longer. There are a lot of people who would tell you that I took several days to respond to their e-mail because I didn't have time.
We haven't decided exactly what non-members will be able to see after the conversion. They won't be able to read all the messages - just some sort of sample.
James Sokolowski
HRhero.com
Hope all of our current players will find a way to continue as a subscriber and participant. I will be here with my "Golden Juices", By the way the dose is now valued at $7.00 per. Send me a money order and I'll send you your own packaged dose of a $30,000.00 highly bred registered boar.
PORK
But, please, do tell us, who has the un-envied duty of making use of the golden juice? And is it an 8-hour shift? I'm not applying, mind you. I'm just wondering how they unwind at the end of the day. I've wondered the same about a proctologist.
As the Forum has grown in size and complexity, we no longer have adequate staff to operate it in the manner we'd like. This includes customer service, technical issues, and improvements. I don't have time to participate on the Forum much (which might be a good thing), and it's usually at night, long after my eight hours have passed.
I really can't see us hiring more staff to provide a free service to the general public. So the only alternative was to limit the Forum to subscribers.
The point I was trying to make last night was that we don't expect this change to bring in much new revenue from new subscriptions.
Have a great weekend. :DD
James Sokolowski
HRhero.com
For the mere 5.33 a week or 277.00 a yr subscription look at the wealth of information you can have.
If you have one ee complaint for W/C, benefits, harassment...etc it is well worth the investment.
JMO,
Lisa
I'm posting the following remark on all three of the threads going on simultaneously now about this same subject, that of restricting Forum access. Some have said there are other sites where we can join up and continue our association and information exchange. Well, what are they? List them. I'll gladly cancel my subscription to the MLSmith Newsletter and get on the bus with the rest of y'all and find another area where we can spread out our blankets and continue the picnic. List them. x:-)
[url]http://www.workforce.com/phpBB/index.php[/url]
Just like here (for the next few weeks, at least), membership is free, but required.
#1 thing a consultant shouldn't say: "I could tell you the answer right now, but we're committed to a three month project..." #-o
I like the suggestion of a couple other posters. Charge a fee for access to the forum only. Say, $39.95 for an annual subscription or $29.95 per year if you sign up for 2 years. These people would have access to the forum only and not the other on-line products.
>the more esteemed intellectual posters such as
>Balloonman and Gillian can no longer
>participate, then I rise to the intellectual
>top.
Excuse me?
Learning that smoll cam slam ray: priceless
I think it is also why we rarely see the type of response that alienates everyone, the "Why don't you just look in the archive? Are you lazy?" and "That's such a basic question I can't believe you're in HR."
Now, if I must pay to participate in the forum, the deal breaks down. If I pay money to participate, I will no longer feel obligated to contribute or help others. I will not pay money for the privelege of answering somebody else's question. IF SOMEONE IS PAYING TO POSE A QUESTION, THE PERSON OR ORGANIZATION GETTING PAID SHOULD ANSWER THE QUESTION, NOT ME. I would also expect others to feel the same way about answering my questions.
For jokes and very opinionated stuff that argument may not apply, but I can find it elsewhere.
I hate to see anyone leave the forum, but you know what you will easily be replaced and the psychology of this forum will change and we will evolve and be better for the force!!!
Sorry to see anyone go, but we all will some day, but don't stop eating MO PORK!
Pork
James it is time to disconnect me from the "Gongs" from this thread, please. My last post on this thread.
If they offered JUST THE FORUM for a small fee I WOULD GLADLY PAY IT!! This is an excellent idea and I hope MLS offers it.
I love the Forum and even though I don't post that much anymore I still check it regularly (although I've been having problems accessing it lately). I just got promoted with my company and I know this forum played a part in that.
Please consider charging for just Forum only access. I might even post more if you offered that, and no, that's not a threat. x:)
We, as HR pros, know what needs to be done to justify an addition to the headcount. Never have I suggested that we layoff people so that we can add to the staff. By closing the Forum to non subscribers, you are in effect getting rid of them. So, with less people to service, I guess you guys will have a layoff too. Right????
Guess that was my own fault.
I had not budgeted for this when I did the budgetthis year, so lets just say I must have been optimistic about being grandfathered in.
Also James, I very much understand why, as things have grown and staff has not the need for paying membership. You guys are just like porn! Everything used to be free on the internet, porn, HRHero.com, mlb radio broadcasts of games..........now they all want money! ;-) Not that I am comparing you to a peddler of porn James, cause you aint that good looking!
I am going to wait for the right time to talk to our CFO, he is, good about most things, so I just need to decide how I want to pitch it, so he gives the correct answer. I intend to be around.
Now as for mwild31 you made me blush! Fact is WC is my strong suit.......what I have been considered an expert at for years......and I love the challenge. Thank you for the kind word.
My $0.02 worth!
DJ The Balloonman
James Sokolowski
HRhero.com
[url]www.hrhero.com/employersforum/newsletters.shtml[/url]
James Sokolowski
HRhero.com
I have participated in several music forums and none of them have required any kind of a fee or subscription. And musicians are notoriously poor and cheap. There are literally thousands of blogs out there in the ether that one can participate on and it is completely free to the participant. The funding comes from the subscription fees paid for their publications, but anyone is allowed to participate on the blogs. I vote for reconsideration.
As for the puckering being experienced in the MLS nether regions, I suspect they are prepared for a certain amount of this - even looking forward to it from a staff workload perspective.
True, we as Forum members can be replaced, - and life goes on.
MLS owns this website, and they can do what they want - charge or not charge for access.
We, as Forum members, will do what we or our employers can afford, stay or go elsewhere.
If MLS sticks with the $277 annual subscription requirements for access , a number of current members are going to leave - I among them . Hopefully those who leave will still keep in touch via email.
Chari
[email]calter@iopener.net[/email]
Of course we will miss the ready reference and assured "deadlock" of a all inclusive and knowing "Dandy Don"; who can't stand it and will be back on in very short order as another twin from the dark past! He writes that he will not go, but that is one fact I would not trust coming from his fingers, He'll be there!
PORK