"Fox 'Regrets' Remarks About Blacks"

TN HR

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-17-05 AT 07:29AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Mexican President Vicente Fox called two American civil rights leaders late Monday and told them he regretted any offense to African-Americans when he said Mexican immigrants in the United States take jobs "that not even blacks want to do."

President Fox has invited Sharpton and Jackson to collaborate on working for immigration rights and civil rights for immigrants in the United States.

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Thoughts? Comments? You know how I love controversial subjects. Isn't this a hell of a way to garner support for "immigration rights and civil rights for immigrants in the United States"?

Gene

Don D

Why won't somebody ask Vicente Fox what his policy is regarding illegal immigrants who attempt to penetrate HIS (Mexico's) Southern border? The Mexican army guards Mexico's Southern border and summarily arrests and jails those who try to enter his country illegally. Yet he envisions invisible borders between himself and America. Why doesn't Fox work to provide decent opportunities for Mexicans in their own country instead of pushing America to open its borders to them? Wouldn't you rather make a decent living where you live than travel 300-700 miles, live in a trailer with 12 others and wire money back home? In fifty years the USA will be predominantly Hispanic, largely caused by this totally out of control situation.

And yes, I'm sure if I was rallying support for a cause I'd want Jessie and Al on my team.

Shadowfax

Maybe, one could argue Fox called one 'civil rights' leader, but he defininately did not call two such persons!

TN HR

Don brings-up an interesting point. Fox has been very active in lobbying U.S. law makers, including his good friend Jorge, to push the AgJobs, the guest worker program, amnesty and many other programs. Why? Because it gets rid of HIS problem. Poverty, lack of education, lack of jobs, etc.

In my opinion, the ramifications of his words are of monumental proportions. It seemed like a program to address the undocumented situation was finally on thew horizon until now, because I'm sure Jorge will drop this thing (and distance himself) faster than you can say Lewinsky.

Gene

Dasher

We all look at things through our filters.
I am insulted by the inference made. It is a negative comment towards blacks which he should (and did) apologize for. And it is not true -- illegals take the jobs they can get and from those who are willing to hire them for the least amount of money without being properly accountable -- it has little to do with other Americans of any hue being unwilling to work.

Shadowfax

AMEN!

TN HR

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-17-05 AT 09:18AM (CST)[/font][br][br]I partly disagree with Dasher's statement. A large number of jobs that illegals take are traditionally low wage unskilled labor poisitions in industries that cannot possibly pay higher wages for several reasons. In my opinion economics, and the "walmartization" of America that you and I fuel by wanting the cheapest price possible in all consumer goods and services, are largely to blame for this.

The demographics in my industry are what they are. You will be hard-pressed to find any African-Americans working the lettuce fields or produce cooler operations in Salinas, CA or Yuma, AZ.

Gene

ritaanz

What is it that disagree with?

System

It has EVERYTHING to do with other Americans being unwilling to work those jobs. Demographics prove the US has a depleted workforce. Further, the unskilled jobs are unappealing or too unglamorous for most Americans, and when constant turnover of unproductive and inefficient workers wreak havoc on a business, the Mexican worker has proven time and again to possess a much stronger work ethic, is less prone to filing frvilous lawsuits, and is significantly more productive. I don't care if you paid $15 per hour - if I had my choice of workers that I felt were all equally qualified, I'd take the Mexican worker 9 times out of ten. And I bet this sentiment is shared by a majority of business owners across the nation. Why do you think George is so unwiling to stem the tide of illegals? Regarding unskilled labor,the American workforce is deviod of a strong work ethic, lacks inititive, and has no concept of "working their way up" to higher paying and more stable positions. To argue otherwise would only prove your head needs to be lifted out of the sand.

TN HR

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-17-05 AT 11:58AM (CST)[/font][br][br]This post by vphr goes down as one of the most authoritative and accurate statements I have seen on this forum in quite some time. In today's PC, tree hugging, hand-holding and kumbaya-singing world, it takes huevos to say what you said and I salute you for it.

Gene

Parabeaglex2

To piggyback on vphr's observations, one of my own: In my company over the last four or five years, I have found significantly less turnover among hispanic employees than non-hispanic employees in the same job (i.e., housekeeping). The reasons most often stated for non-hispanic employees leaving are that they don't like the work, need benefits, etc. I never hear the same sentiments from hispanic employees. As far as ritaanz' observation that instead of paying someone $6 an hour to pick lemons and hire illegals, pay $12 an hour and hire legals. Sounds good in theory, but impractical. If I started every housekeeper we employ at $12/hr instead of $8, we'd have to charge much more per room night - more than our guests are willing to pay.

ritaanz

Beaglepuss, my purpose in posting about the lemons was not to suggest a higher starting pay, it was to show how some Americans think we can solve the illegals problem. Just throw money out there and viola, solved. The hell with the ramifications.

ritaanz

Dan: Your statement is right on target. I feel that one of the reasons "the American workforce is devoid of a strong work effort, etc." is our welfare system. In today's America we now have the fourth and fifth generation of welfare recipients. Most of them have no idea of WORK. I have been told that welfare is my American birthright.

The Mexican or the Vietnamese or the Haitian or the Asian, etc. did not have the exposure to our benevolent welfare system. Perhaps that is one of the reasons the immigrants shine.

ray a

Well, we did a good job back in the late 70s early 80s to expose the South East Asians fleeing VietNam and the surrounding countries about our welfare system. We began hiring Asians because they reportedly had a great work ethic and would work real cheap. That was only partly true. But, they never stayed very long because of a program available only to them where they could attend the local community college for free and even be paid a living stipend. All courtesy of the tax payers. Funny thing though, those who complained the loudest would never have considered going to college anyway.

System

You're absolutely right. And dont get me started on welfare because that can only be followed by a discussion about our unemployment system, and my disdain for both would cause me so say very naughty things......

lorrie

I agree completely about having a disdain for our welfare and unemployment system. The initial idea of a helping hand is a good theory, but has gone terribly awry. The 'handouts' have created a huge feeling of entitlement, and I see this across every nationality we employ.

I get so tired of hearing: No, I don't need health insurance for my 4 children. My girlfriend has a medical card (since we aren't married.)

Last week I received a request from SRS for wage information on one of our full-time regular employees. She just had a baby and wants to stay home for the full 12 weeks of FMLA, but her STD ends at 6 weeks so she applied for welfare benefits for the remaining 6 weeks! She is living with her boyfriend, and their 10 year old son; Both are in their 30s and fully capable of caring for themselves.

What can be done to change this system? That's a million (trillion) dollar question.

dchr9203

Amen!

ritaanz

In one of the "Letters to the Editor" section today, a gentleman suggested that if the pay for certain jobs was higher, Americans would be more than willing to take them. As an example he cited instead of paying immigrants $6 an hour for picking lemons, pay $12 and there would not be a shortage of American workers willing to do that.

My question is, how much is the job worth? What kind of tidal wave is created? Surely that suggestion is not the answer.

TN HR

The job is only worth what the end user is willing to pay for the finished product or service.

Dasher

"Regarding unskilled labor,the American workforce is deviod of a strong work ethic, lacks inititive, and has no concept of "working their way up" to higher paying and more stable positions. To argue otherwise would only prove your head needs to be lifted out of the sand."

Come on now -- are you speaking of the statement made by "The Fox" which referred to Afro-Americans; or would this apply to any and every American worker seeking an unskilled job?

It certainly does not apply to my mom and pop who worked for peanuts to put us through school and make a better life. And I know of way too many such family stories to the contrary of your position.

I admire people with strong work ethics -- but it sure does not preclude any one group - nor does it apply unilaterially to any one. America did not become a strong economic force in this world with a lazy overly greedy population and I will not allow statements like the above quote to go unchallenged.

Parabeaglex2

Dasher, I didn't see any reference to race in the comment to which you are responding. Unmotivated workers come in all sizes, shapes and colors.

Dasher

You are correct -- Mr. Fox's original statement got me too excited! I will exhale now -- sorry.

System

My statement was absolutely an equal opportunity indictment of toaday's work ethic, and applies to whites and blacks. And your point about your Mom and Pop only proves my point further as I was referring to today's generation of workers, mainly the 18-25 year olds, the ones that make up the bulk of the unskilled labor pool. Your parents generation knew that hard work was the only way to succeed; they didn't rely on government handouts or the rest of society to pay their bills or make excuses for their own failings. Personal accountability does wonders for someone's desire to make ends meet.

Whatever

The first time my parents went out to San Diego for the winter, they were immediately told how they could get their hair cut cheaper(and in my mothers case,a set etc) in their house by someone from Mexico than going to a salon (or in Brooklynese Unisex barber shop). When they inquired about getting someone in once a week to clean, they only got the names of Mexicans. The same people who only knew how to use cheap Mexican workers were the same ones that complained about cheap Mexican workers stealing American jobs.

Whirlwind

Exactly. I've heard about a documentary that was released within the past year or so called "A Day Without a Mexican." I haven't seen it, but apparently it makes the point very dramatically that life in California would basically shut down without Mexican workers.

TN HR

I heard about the documentary too. I think the title, as stated by you, is incomplete. I saw the previews for it on PBS last night. "A Day Without a Mexican: pOrK's Struggle With the SAVE Pilot".

Gene

Don D

I'll pay seven dollars for a raw chicken, two dollars a head for lettuce and triple my cost for ribs and chops, or give them up altogether. All of you are mired in the present and the yada yada of economic smoke and mirrors and the argument over whose work ethic is best or worse or absent, while that is totally irrelevant.

Think for a moment of the long term implications, ramifications and end-results. Do you really want every community in America to be inundated with trailer parks full of Mexicans? Do you really want all of your school systems flip-flopped to Spanish as a primary language? Do you really want EVERY aisle in the grocery store flagged with Spanish advertisements and do you want to search for the English-Language aisle? Hey, if so, open the damned borders and pretend it's all meaningless in the long term. It's not at all a question of who are the harder workers. Immigration is an orderly, lawful process; not an event of crawling through barbed wire and overtaking a country and dumbing it down.

I hate it when I'm vague.

TN HR

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-18-05 AT 06:01AM (CST)[/font][br][br][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-17-05 AT 10:06 PM (CST)[/font]

Jeez Don, see if Superlative will slip you a valium to help take the edge off!

ray a

Too late Don. We have a grand total of 6% minorities in our two county area, of which Hispanics are only a small part. But, even Sears uses Spanish throughout the store for aisle locations and sales advertisements. Oh, and same with Lowe's.

JudyT929

Sounds like you need some diversity training Don. Hispanics are moving into the US in record numbers and those #s will continue to rise and no they aren't all living in "trailer parks" any more than other group of people; And they aren't trying to "dumb it down", how arrogant and prejudicial of you! I wish our schools DID teach English and Spanish starting in first grade, our kids would have an extra advantage and be better for it. If my grocery store posts in English and Spanish I wouldn't mind, I might learn something and be better for it and so might you.

Pricehcs

Way down here you need a reason to move
feel a fool, runnin your stateside games
lose your load, leave your mind behind baby James

Whoa Mexico
It sounds so simple I just got to go
the sun's so hot I forgot to go home
I guess I'll have to go now

Americano got the sleepy eye
but his body's still shakin' like a live wire
sleepy senorita with the eyes on fire

Whoa Mexico
It sounds so sweet with the sun sinkin' low
moon's so bright like to light up the night
make everything alright

Baby's hungry and the money's all gone
the folks back home don't wanna talk on the phone
she gets a long letter sends back a postcard
times are hard

Whoa down in Mexico
I've never really been so I don't really know
Whoa Mexico
I guess I'll have to go

Whoa Mexico
I've never realyl been, but I'd sure like to go
and whoa Mexico
I guess I'll have to go now

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/bandit.gif[/IMG]

Talkin' 'bout in Mexico
Good old honkeytonk down in Mexico [ohh ohh]
Ohhh Ohh Mexico...

#1 thing a consultant shouldn't say: "I could tell you the answer right now, but we're committed to a three month project..." #-o