Employers Forum Protocol
System
5,885 Posts
We've been receiving feedback from forum users that forum discussions are frequently crossing far over the line of professionalism.
Below is a link to Employers Forum guidelines for what is appropriate on the forum. Please read them and abide by them. We will enforce them with your help.
[b]What's appropriate for the forum[/b]
[url]http://www.hrhero.com/employersforum/help4.shtml[/url]
Christy Reeder
Associate Website Editor
HRhero.com
Below is a link to Employers Forum guidelines for what is appropriate on the forum. Please read them and abide by them. We will enforce them with your help.
[b]What's appropriate for the forum[/b]
[url]http://www.hrhero.com/employersforum/help4.shtml[/url]
Christy Reeder
Associate Website Editor
HRhero.com
Comments
It is my opinion that the forum has been rather tame in the last several months - at least in comparison to when it's use was open to anyone. Since the membership terms were tightened to only allow access to those who subscribed to the state law letters, seems like some of the controversy has gone away.
It's not like the days when Steel Boy introduced himself by urinating all over the forum, then metamorphed into the kinder, gentler Aluminum Boy, then metamorphed into ?
Nor the days when posters would disguise themselves as a newbee and stir the pot with barbs aimed at various folks.
I seem to recall that you effectively reined him in when he went a bit too far.
For 20 years I have lived the life of an HR professional in private practice and I will continue to do so for the remainer of my "Living Down South" years. I am a gentle but detail person. I have lived in a military world all of my life and have served the government for most of those years. I have read and enjoyed the words posted by Don and Gene and consider them to be very strong HR personalities. Gene especially has pushed me well in my post about the SAVE Program; for that, all of you have me identified as an honest broker in this arena.
This topic is so important to all of us and not just for our personal HR world. Our government has finally provided us with a solution to some of our HR issues and I was concerned that my encourgements, recommendations were not getting through to those that are interested, thus my need to counter every post of Gene and Don, which appeared to be non-supporting. There is never a way to know who is listening and who is turned off.
Again I apologize to all who complained; however, I also remind you that the "click on the mouse" will always work to shut me and anyone else off. That is agreat feature of this forum, you tune in and you are welcome to tune out, as you see fit.
It is a Blessed and beautiful day, and we are alive and well, I hope!
PORK
Oh yeah, and the attitude that if you don't like something on the Forum that you should "click away". There's a serious disconnect with anyone who feels this is public domain and you can act or say anything with impunity. Case in point, the emails and "personal files" comment. What is particularly scary was the member's response to Don's request to stop the emails.
I, for one, am done discussing the controversial topic. It is really not important at all and in the grand scheme of things I have hundreds of more relevant things to spend my time on than debating what I think is a worthless program.
I am very outspoken and direct. I am also brutally honest. However, I have always complied with others' requests to either tone something down or to apologize when I've crossed the line. It bothers me that anyone on this forum would think it is OK to email people and start "personal files" against their wishes.
Gene
On the other hand, since I am not GenE, I cannot apologize for the multitude of eggregious, awful, hurtful, angry, belligerent, spiteful and bone-headed things he's posted. x:-)
If one is a true HR professional, one should be able to tune out what needs to be tuned out, glean knowledge, wisdom and understanding when possible, and move on. This whining of some pertaining to unprofessionalism sickens me and I would certainly hate for a couple of thin skinned individuals have a say in censoring what I feel is a great forum of expression.
OK. I feel better now.
But, it no longer bothers me when people whine and claim embarassment or offense. It's become quite common over the past three years. Sure, threads degenerate from pure professional discussion to levity to humor to bluntness to arrows to darts to hammers. But, at the end of the day we all leave the building as friends and chalk it up to another day at the coal mine. It brings a certain level of (in)sanity.
I was honest in my e-mail question to you about a particular post that you had made, but I believe that is the purpose of the e-mail capability. i did not understand and wanted to better understand where you were coming from with the post. I have said many times and in many different ways that your post are great for a clear point of your post and where you stand on issues. I felt that if I did not understand, then maybe other posters would not understand. My intent was to learn more from you direct, rather than a stab into the cyberspace for a possible better understanding of where you were coming from.
I have files on my computer for everyone with whom I have a personal interest in for HR purposes. The file allows me to quickly spring forward a question to our HR Professional group regardless of the forum. I am a resource for all HR professionals that wish to communicate with me. I also consider these files as my friends in the HR world. Yes there is one with all of our communications for the last 4 years. There is even a file for Gene, but I must admit I have not chosen to exercise it to much. Your recent post to me in public is the first that you have ever asked me not to e-mail you. Instead of going public with that "notice", why did you not do as you have previously done, and lay me out with your words in a direct e-mail rather than.......??? Oh well, I know that I am not a danger to you or anyone else for that matter, so go home and rest in peace knowing that our world is still turning and just maybe, you will awake in the morning with sunshine in your heart!
PORK
Its just more evidence of the "thinning" of our society's skin. The whole policital correctness thing; don't say "boo" lest it offend someone; don't pray to God/Jesus in public; let's legitimize "alternate" lifestyles thereby forcing society to accept it; let's not call black black and blue blue because it might disagree with someone else's opinion; let's all walk on egg shells and "tolerate" anything and everyone 'cause we don't want anybody to get their feelings hurt. We've done little more than create a society of overly sensitive, self-centered individuals who think its all about them and everything is personal. Jeez! Get a grip. Yes I've seen things on the forum that come close to the line if not down right cross it, but so what. Since I'm not eye-ball to eye-ball with the poster, I'm missing the other CRITICAL elements that make the communication whole (i.e. eye-contact; body languange; tone; volume; etc.) If I don't like it I don't read it. I sure don't take it personally. And since all postings have sreen names, if one particular poster is offensive and I know it, I don't dignify their other postings by reading them. But thanks to Christy just the same for raising our awareness and reminding us of the forum "etiquette".
Linda
Personally, I enjoy the interaction and haven't ever been offended by anthing I've read.
It's not directed at me. And sometimes the byplay leads to more knowledge!
Neither they nor the moderators are suggesting that we can't have fun on the forum. The question has simply been addressed - "Where do we draw the line?"
As moderators, it is our responsibility to draft guidelines for the forum and guide the forum according to those guidelines. We take into consideration customer feedback on both sides of issues in addition to discussing other pros and cons.
Just as in HR, those on the receiving end of decisions may not see or know the whole picture and all the contributing factors that went into making a decision to leave or remove a post.
We are professionals doing our job. While we would like to please everyone, it's just not possible. The guidelines are in place. We hope we don't have to enforce them. We hope everyone will simply abide by them.
If you're pondering whether you should post something on the forum, please just click the FAQ icon at the top of the forum and read over the section "What's appropriate for the Forum?" As adults, I'm sure we can apply the guidelines in a reasonable manner and still have fun.
"Just as in HR, those on the receiving end of decisions may not see or know the whole picture and all the contributing factors that went into making a decision to leave or remove a post."
I am a big picture person, but I also understand the "devil is in the details" to quote Ross Perot (never thought I would do that).
If you place a lot of mystery around your decisions to remove a post, you preclude the possibility of adequate self policing. So not withstanding a review of the forum guidelines, you are pointing out that we just cannot know or deal with the factors you all discuss about our behavior.
Perhaps you are toying with the idea that controversy makes good entertainment, which will pull more visitors in to lurk or post and join in all the bruhaha. But not too much now, because some will be offended and cancel their subsciptions.
Let's just be patronizing to the members and tell them they must play like adults, only we get to decide, behind the scenes and without telling anyone our real criteria, what an adult behaves like.
We'll slap your hands once in a while when you misbehave and we may or may not tell you why, and you will just have to live with it.
I am a mild mannered guy, I like to think I behave with almost all the decorum you could expect. But I find this deplorable.
I have yet to hear that anything we posted in the guidelines is inappropriate. If someone has constructive feedback about how the guidelines should be revised, please feel free to share.
We simply ask that everyone please read the guidelines and use discretion accordingly.
The guidelines are fine. Implementing them with that extra mystery you referenced is maddening.
>If you place a lot of mystery around your
>decisions to remove a post, you preclude the
>possibility of adequate self policing. So not
>withstanding a review of the forum guidelines,
>you are pointing out that we just cannot know or
>deal with the factors you all discuss about our
>behavior.
To clarify: When we can, we will notify those who've had posts removed and let them know why. But we simply don't have the staff or time to debate in-depth with everyone on the forum every time we leave or remove a post.
I posted something to this effect on a separate thread in HR-de-Har-Har and should have posted it here also.
>
>Perhaps you are toying with the idea that
>controversy makes good entertainment, which will
>pull more visitors in to lurk or post and join
>in all the bruhaha. But not too much now,
>because some will be offended and cancel their
>subsciptions.
Everything is a balancing act. Controversy is good, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
>
>Let's just be patronizing to the members and
>tell them they must play like adults, only we
>get to decide, behind the scenes and without
>telling anyone our real criteria, what an adult
>behaves like.
We have set forth the guidelines which are public to everyone. Those are the real criteria we are using to make decisions on whether to respond to forum members' requests to delete forum posts.
My question: Why is everyone so up in arms about this? Do you disagree that there should be some reasonable boundaries drawn? And that someone out there needs to enforce those boundaries? Was my original post that "we have guidelines for the forum and here they are" unreasonable? Some of the very people who are complaining about these boundaries have e-mailed us asking that we enforce them on several occasions.
I am a customer too. I currently subscribe to several products, I get a lot out of them, but I get the most out of the interaction on the forum. It can get a bit bumpy at times, but that is part of what I like about it.
I have only hit the alert button to ask that an obvious commercial message by a vendor by removed. Even when I found posts to be uncomfortable or to suggest that as a person of dual hats, my offerings were less beneficial, I did not ask others to fight my battles for me. If I care enough about a topic or a comment to be offended, outraged or just a little miffed, I will take that up with the originator.
The threads and posts will test your knowledge, the courage of your convictions and the clarity of your perceptions. You may have to defend aspects of your professional and personal conduct as you weave your way through the forum - but these are things that mostly lead to professional and sometimes personal growth.
As admitted on the netiquette guidelines, the moderators are often uncertain about the intent/content of posts. Are people offended? Are they kidding? Did the line get crossed?
It is all so subjective, that the "line" is drawn not in indelible, lazer straight marker, but in some sort of hazy, meandering, often broken, confusing fashion. So if no one complains, let it go.
But is the complainer challenged? Is it just a given than if the complaint happens, the post is deleted? Is this regardless of the original posters intent or feelings about the matter?
Does M.L. Smith ever not intervene in a complaint? Do you directly suggest the offended party take the matter up at the source and work it out like adults?
These are some of the tools we use in our workplace. Intervention is not necessarily the last resort, but intervening often gives up the opportunity for growth and development.
There is enough time to defend the deletions, but not enough time to notify the original posters?
OK, I am done for a while. Moderating can be a tough job, and I don't see the complaints or deal with the offended parties directly.
This is a commercial website. You sway with the breeze generated by subscriptions. As others have said, we all have choices. Right now, I am not so incensed that I will cancel my subscription and post on other boards, I am just trying to understand the subjective nature of the deletions.
~Kim
Well, Christy, as you know by now, you put your foot into it with a post like this. (I won't reference any particular kind of dung) Kind of like being in HR work, enforcing rules that all of our employees see as unfair to their particular circumstances.
My personal opinion is this: This is, arguably, the best HR site around, at least of any that I've found, or that many of our posters have found. Be guided by that. Some free flow has to be allowed, that's what makes it good. On the other hand, if someone posted kiddie porn, I don't think any of our group would argue that it should be allowed. Your job is to draw the line somewhere, and, as I believe it was Underdog, said: "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it." Good Luck
Edit: spelling
Edit: OK, it may have been Super Chicken
P.S. Don't you just know that somewhere in the background James is relieved it's not him this time?