Spanish Required For Principals

LivindonSouth

The noon news, if I caught it correctly, had a story about the Dallas School Board considering a requirement that all Dallas area principals take Spanish and be fluent in that language so they can converse with Spanish speaking parents about their children's progress. One of the school board members, himself appearing to be Hispanic, said that he was opposed and was of the opinion that the parents should learn English if communication with principals is problematic.

I know G3 will chime in to broad-brush the suggestion that it would be a better world if we all knew a second language, Dasher will suggest I take a Kum Bah Yah class and TN HR will accuse me of being a Klansman. The point is that we might be getting close to flat out requiring that WE adjust to those who choose to 'seek the American dream' rather than allowing THEM, if they choose, to acquire/utilize the tools found within the dream.

tranquilidad e oracion por nos x:-)

Gillian3

Your Spanish needs some brushing up.

TN HR

This may come as a real shocker, but I think you'll find my views on this are well-aligned with yours. I think that one of the worst disservices we can do for immigrants is to accomodate their lack of desire to assimilate and learn our language and customs.

Gene

LivindonSouth

I tried my best to say, "Peace & prayers for us". Where did I go wrong G3? Do you chastise me for trying?

Gillian3

Nope, a couple of points for you.

pork1

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-31-05 AT 04:32PM (CST)[/font][br][br]I hope not, but that might be what is next.

We already provide an employee handbook typed in Spanish. I have provided Spainish/English dictionaries to the remote locations where our Hispanic employees work. These have helped alot with the basic words needed to communicate a job task or technique required to be accomplished. The Hispanic employee does not need to be taught but once; from then on, it will be done the way they were trained; when we change they must be retrained, but you can count on them to get it right from then on.

Our Hispanic employees are very smart and most have learned to speak English and are willing participants with any one who wishes to also learn their national language.

We look to the future with a better relationships with those who are authorized to be here for whatever reason.

PORK

dchr9203

I whole heartedly agree with the opposing school board member. In the community where I live in Alabama, the Hispanic population is exponentially increasing, and while I'm glad that they have the "liberty" to pursue the American way (albeit most of them do so illegally), I firmly believe it is their responsibility to learn to live in the American culture, including the language, and I would expect no less of myself if I wished to live in a foreign land or culture.

JudyT929

The story does not apply to "all" Dallas schools, only those where most of the students and their families have difficulty speaking English. The story says "we want to make the principal more accessible to the children and the parents of children with limited English proficiency, and we want to encourage parental involvement." There are 42 schools in the Dallas district that over half of the students do not speak fluent English and currently Spanish speaking is not a requirement of the principal. Also they are looking at making the statement as "preferred" not "required" that the principals speak the language of the majority of students.

How can you encourage students to speak English and "adapt to the American Way" if they can't understand what you are saying in the first place?

JudyT in Dallas.

LivindonSouth

You don't 'encourage' students to speak English, it's a requirement of successful assimilation. It's part of the process. If you're not going to go through the legal process of immigration, at least pursue the goal of learning the language and monetary system. Next the bankers will be required to speak in terms of pesos.

In times past, many communities in the northeast and perhaps midwest were, over time, populated by a large segment of Polish, Czech, Italian, German and many others, some equaling 50% of the community. Do you really feel that the mayors and city government officials and major employers of those cities should have been 'encouraged' or mandated to learn to speak the languages of those new citizens? It turned out rather the opposite and things moved along fine and assimilation occurred.

I grew up in a community that had a sizeable Chinese immigrant population, The MS Delta. We also had a large population of Spanish, Italian and Jewish. The Baptist churches set up Chinese schools and a Chinese ministry. It was of benevolent intention, designed to welcome them. The Children of the Chinese merchants were required to attend the Chinese school where they were pampered with the Chinese language. That set them back 10 or so years and finally they were integrated into the public schools. They turned out to be the brightest among us, without doubt.

Principals in America speaking Spanish is not the answer. It's a neat concept, and perhaps politically correct, or as some would see it, cool; but, it's not part of the solution.

TN HR

Son-of-a-gun! I learned something new today! I had no idea about Chinese settlers in the MS Delta. Would that explain pOrK's usage of the term "Chineeze Overtime"?

BTW, I almost wet my pants at your spanish "peace and prayers". I doubt many got it. I did

LivindonSouth

G3 in his usual conceited left coast way, told me I needed to polish up my Spanish. Glad you could interpret it. I don't know much Spanish. Sometimes I try.

pork1

The children of the Hispanic family unit may in fact be Naturalized US Citizens. If they are not provided with opportunities for transferance of their learning and understanding of the English language to Spainish and Spanish to English, they will always have difficulty. There are special communities, where the development of understanding and speaking the Spainish language for US Citizens is most appropriate.

We must remember in many of these situations the children are naturalized citizens. My sons were born in Germany and had a double citizenship. They learned German and travel the community without any fear of being out of place or missing out on anything.

Requiring some political positions of authority may need to learn and use two languages in order to be successful in their positions in order to take care of the needs of the under-developed US Citizen. The standards should not be lower for the child, but the professional teachers and administrators, who must deal with these family units should be able to communicate on two levels Spanish and English.

PORK

SandiF

Not my problem, JudyT.

ray a

Here, try this Spanish version:

[i]Paz y rezos para nosotros

LivindonSouth

Here, try this Spanish version:

beso los burro

ray a

kiss the donkey?

LivindonSouth

Your Spanish is superb.

Gillian3

That means "I kiss the donkey".

LivindonSouth

Gillian, read my lips; It says, "Kiss my ass". But, you knew that already. It's not politically correct to make fun of my grammar.

Whatever

Living in a city with a large non-English speaking population, this is a question that seems not be easily resolved. Many, including those who are not fluent in English, believe that children should be immersed in the English language as quickly as possible (i.e. -no bilingual classes). Others believe that if there is no instruction in the native language, the children will fall behind in other subjects. The reality is that in many cases, not all, the children end up being translators for their parents. When my Grandparents immigrated here, there was no question that they would learn to speak and read English. I don't know why that philosophy seems to have changed.

The one thing that gets me very perturbed is how anyone can become an American citizen and not speak or read the English language. I don't understand why instructions for voting need to be in foreign languages.

Good Grief, I'm running on and worst, agreeing with Don.

Crout

While I agree it may serve to retard the assimilation process, I also see the viewpoint that being bi-lingual will simply help get the job done....assuming that communication with parents facilitates the educational process. It reminds me of all the ads I see for HR positions up in north Jersey that require the ability to speak Spanish.

Whirlwind

One of the reasons I so rarely post on these controversial threads anymore is because I just don’t think most complicated problems have simple answers, so I find it difficult to compose a succinct post. But here goes: To me, a lot of things sound better in theory and in rhetoric than they do in the real world of people’s lives. For example, I understand that many generations of immigrants have successfully learned English and otherwise adapted to American culture with little or no support from public education or government agencies. I believe that’s a worthy ideal and that immigrants should make the effort to learn English as quickly as possible. Problem is, you just can’t learn English in a few weeks and no one is served if parents cannot communicate with educators about their children’s education. Although I’m in HR, I have spent my entire adult life in education and I’ve seen first-hand the problems that occur when educators can’t communicate with parents. The kids might be in ESL or Bilingual Ed., but their parents aren’t.

Having said that, it is not necessary to require that the principal be the one who has to know Spanish (and Judy has accurately stated that this is a preferred, not a required qualification in certain schools, not all schools in DISD). In my school, we have a staff of four social workers, and at any given time at least one of them must be bilingual, period. None of our principals or assistant principals are bilingual but currently two of the four social workers are. It’s not always perfect, but it works fine for the most part.

LivindonSouth

Assuming that there is some truth in the reports of illegal immigrants heavily utilizing the services of the public schools, emergency rooms at state supported hospitals, the criminal justice system, the welfare system and state departments of social services, do we next then require that a percentage of guards, welfare case workers, nurses, physicians, teachers and intake workers speak Spanish in order to more orderly facilitate the leeching process? Or will I simply be remanded to diversity training again?

Whirlwind

To comment further, partially in response to your last post, I think we have to have way different standards for kids than we do for adults. Adults have to be responsible for themselves; kids can't be responsible for their parents and can't help it if their parents came into the United States illegally. I think it's in the best interests of society in general and for the future of our country if we do everything possible to help make all children successful, especially in school.

LarryC

If the only language you folks have to worry about is Spanish, I envy you. Here in the Land of 10,000 Sorts of Immigrants, there are two languages spoken: English and Other. The folks that speak Other usually have their english speaking kids interpret for them. I once tried to explain, as delicately as possible, to an 11 year old Bosnian girl why the work comp system would not pay for her mother's yeast infection. Try THAT sometime.

Gillian3

In my opinion, the school board thinks that the requirement/preferance will help the principals deal with the practicalities of running a school. The "they must learn our language, assimilate into our culture etc. etc" is not realistic. Every immigrant group takes a generation or two to assimilate. It isn't a "we have to adjust to them" situation, but one of adjusting to the reality of working with Spanish speakers who know little English and whatever the problem is must be solved today, not 20 years in the future when the kids speak English. As far as the school board goes, the idea is not practical since the principals have the same problem - they aren't all going to run out and learn Spanish.

marc

I am a strong believer that American English should be learned by those that come here to live. It is one of the keys to learning the basics of our system(s).

When we travel around the world, one must get off the beaten tourist tracks to find people that cannot speak English. That is because of the power of commerce.

Here in the USA, which is the birthplace of a very successful economic system, for some reason we are abandoning one of the underpinnings of our foundation. Yes, there are lots of issues that plague us when people cannot communicate, and those issues can be very costly in terms of human misery and money, but come on! If you or I moved to a non-english speaking country, there would be little or no attempt to conform to our needs, it would be our responsibility to adapt to the local conditions and situations, which would include learning to speak with those around us.

I will applaud those that learn to speak spanish, I think that is great, but I draw the line at publishing everything in two or more languages. When I go to the ATM, I have to press a button if I want the instructions in English, otherwise the default is in Spanish. Our local demographic is 20% hispanic, but instead of the 20% conforming to the 80%, it is the other way around.

Something is wrong with this picture.

Gillian3

No, the bank isn't requiring that you conform to Spanish speakers. It is just taking care of business and their Spanish speaking customers.

LivindonSouth

You're wrong G3. The bank is prostituting itself. If it is true that the population pool in his community is 20% Hispanic, it probably follows that 5-7% of them utilize the bank, if that many, and if some of the population is illegal, none of them use the bank. Therefore, for the default language to be Spanish makes no sense. They're not 'taking care of business'. They're irritating their primary customer base.

Gillian3

Well, that's certainly the predominant point of view, at least judging from this thread. Perhaps the bank is prostituting. Maybe the Dallas School Board is, and the requirement that HR people some places in Pennsylvania speak Spanish is prostituting. Heck, maybe everyone who utters a word of Spanish to try and accomodate someone who doesn't speak English is prostituting. Maybe Larry was prostituting when he accomodated to reality as best he could. Maybe I am. On the other hand, maybe we are just accomodating to change and doing what is necessary to do get business done.

JudyT929

Having the option of instructions in Spanish or English doesn't irritate me at all. Every time I've gone to Mexico I find an abundance of English speaking people and instructions and menus etc in English. There is a difference between all the other languages and Spanish because Spanish speaking people live on the same continent as the US so logically there are going to be much larger groups of Spanish speaking people in this country than those that speak any other foreign language. However, even if I saw signs in a dozen other languages in addition to English it wouldn't bother me it would only want me to become better educated so that I could communicate in other languages. I don't understand why any of you apposed to the Spanish language can not see this as an opportunity for all to learn another language instead of looking at it as a negative. For the past 20 years living in Texas and southern California most all the jobs listed in the paper for anything HR related have requested bi-lingual, this is not a new phenomenom. Wake up and smell the tortillas! this country has been continually evolving since it's start and I for one hope it never stops because thats what makes this country great.