flipping off insubordination?

NaeNae55 · April 2010

This morning on the radio the DJs were talking about a recent court ruling. They said if you got a ticket you could flip off the cop and it was not illegal, and that there was nothing the officer could do about it. They then said you could flip off your boss and again, there would be no repercussions.

I am sitting here thinking those DJs don't have a clue. Wouldn't it be insubordination?

davids · April 2010

You bet it would be insubordination. It is the same as an employee directing profanity towards a supervisor. The case with the police officer rested on the "flipping off" being free speech (expression). Employers can control speech and expression in the workplace. Of course, there are limits to what an employer can require; but I feel confident that "flipping off" would be found to be expression that an employer can control.

Still Need Coffee · April 2010

I agree, Nae - we'd call that insubordination.

Carolil · April 2010

Nae, let's hope few listeners were stupid enough to take the DJ's word as fact. Otherwise, they're in for a rude awakening. If I even suggested to my managers that flipping off was behavior "up with which they had to put" I'd be joining those listeners on the job line...

ACU Frank · April 2010

It's certainly a terminable offense in most workplaces, but it probably isn't insubordination. (I have this discussion with our VPs and branch managers frequently.)

While there are a variety of court rulings that help define insubordination, they include a common theme, which is that the act of insubordination involves intentionally disobeying an employer's lawful directive. I guess if you flipped your manager off and he said "Don't do that again" and you did it again... then it would be insubordination. But violation of a standard of conduct - no matter how well defined in your policy manual or employee handbook - does not automatically constitute insubordination.

NaeNae55 · April 2010

I looked up insubordination at dictionary.com to be sure that I understood the term perfectly:

in·sub·or·di·nate /ˌɪnsəˈbɔrdnɪt/ Show Spelled[in-suh-bawr-dn-it] Show IPA
–adjective
1.not submitting to authority; disobedient: an insubordinate soldier.
2.not lower.

—Synonyms
1. refractory, defiant, [B]insolent[/B].

in·so·lent /ˈɪnsələnt/ Show Spelled[in-suh-luhnt] Show IPA
–adjective
1.boldly rude or disrespectful; contemptuously impertinent; insulting: an insolent reply.

I guess if you consider rude and disrespectful as part of the meaning of insubordination, then flipping off your boss can get you fired. If you limit the term to intentionally disobeying, then flipping off your boss is something you can get away with.

I always thought insurbordination included insolence, but I can see that others might not see it the same way. I guess here we consider respect as important to everyone, but especially to your supervisor. It is policy, therefore we would consider failure to be respectful as intentional disobediance.

Paul in Cannon Beach · April 2010

My guess is the subtle nuances of the word "insubordination" would be lost on any manager who just had an employee give him or her the finger.

I would love to know if one of those DJs tested out their theory with their station program manager. I can't imagine a situation where an employee could flip off the boss without repurcussions.

ACU Frank · April 2010

Hey, there are plenty of reasons to fire employees that don't include insubordination... insolence included. I was just going by the legal definition.

flipping off insubordination?

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