Curriculum vitae

traceyb · December 2005

Hi, all.

I have come face-to-face with all my HR inadequacies, and need training.

Would any of you professionals be willing to
state your education? If I am responsible for
a growing, non-union shop, should I be pursuing
a Masters in HR? (Have BA & MA already, different
majors). Or will regular attendance at employment
symposiums be adequate? Just curious...tb

SMace · December 2005

I believe the best scenario is to have a very good mentor and throw in some experince.

Getting a PHR is probably the best bang for your buck and time.

Absent those, I guess a Master's would be OK, but what I learned in school didn't help me a whole lot. Lot of good theory, but the real world had quite an affect on those theories.

jitrbug · December 2005

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-29-05 AT 04:41PM (CST)[/font][br][br]It doesn't hurt to have the Master's dependent on how high up the career ladder you want to go but it's true real world HR throws all the twist and turns at you that they don't put into the school books. PHR or SPHR really tests your practical knowledge on these issues. The problem I have come across with the PHR/SPHR is some of the mid or smaller businesses (with small HR depts) are not familiar with it and don't understand the weight or measurement of your knowledge this certification carries. They understand the different levels of a college degree though and usually are looking for that first instead of the actual depth of your HR skills that would be indicated by the PHR/SPHR.
Tracey, don't get discouraged with your "inadequacies." Everyone in HR has learned most from doing just what your doing....asking and learning from other HR people. Even with years of experience we each get that feeling sometimes! Read everything HR you can get your hands on and ask, ask, ask other HR pro's. Thank goodness you have this forum so utilize it! If I have learned anything from years in HR is HR pro's support each other!

traceyb · December 2005

What a bountiful reply!!Thanks for sharing with
me.

pork1 · December 2005

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-30-05 AT 10:54AM (CST)[/font][br][br]TRACEYB: Be happy to reveal my education and offer some good ole advice. I have a MS degree in the field of counseling (Drug and Alcohol Abuse). This has come in handy, when dealing with the issue in the employer/employee world; but is it necessary not really! The fact that you already have a Master's Degree says lots about your ability to learn and then operate. I would seek out the 12 Danger Zones of Supervising developed by this very great forum (HrHero, M. L. Smith) and then become the instructor for your supervisors/managers. Nothing prepares one better for the educational experience than the need to prepare to be the instructor. Within those 12 topic danger zones is the 12 serious issues of the HR world. Following those operational issues are several required subject matter that you must become the organizations "subject matter expert". They are W/Comp, payroll, benefits, evaluations, and recruitment and placement. By the time you get all of this you will have a master's in the everyday knocks and brains of the HR "world of work"! These subject matter expert units start with research and the laws within your state. This forum and the active partisipation in all of the questions and responses with give you great information to put in your portfolio of HR stuff.
I started as a personnel manager within the military where I had achieved my master's degree, when I retired and entered the civilian world I began as a trainer for a big retail company. Over time I became the HR and experienced my first ever Reduction in force (lay off)! Girl, you can not find any better education on the ends and outs of the HR world than having to experience this activity first hand. I have since been in that situation 4 more times.
Finally, I recommend you get deep into the understanding of your companies' policy and procedures. You must be the expert, if you do not know every detail and the "whys and whynots" about the issues then that is your starting assignment. If you then don't understand then set out to understand how the item operates and set out to change it to be for the better or for the present way of doing business.

I hope this has given you some room to grow and to get started!

PORK

traceyb · December 2005

Pork, I have already learned much from you just
in the forum! Thanks for the reply - you
truly motivate me. tb

SMace · December 2005

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-29-05 AT 04:21PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Tracy, my reply was focused on advising you what training would be most helpful in your day to day HR activities.

If you are looking for career progression or more money, I agree with jtrbug.

Whirlwind · December 2005

I have a bachelor's in psychology and a master's in educational administration. I'm an HR director in an educational setting, so both of my degrees were helpful. I don't think a master's in HR was available back in my college days (i.e., the Early Pleistocene Epoch). My HR education came in the form of (1) an elective HR mgmt. course as part of my master's program, (2) the hard knocks school of experience, (3) preparing for, taking, and later teaching part of the curriculum for the SPHR exam. I, like others, recommend the PHR/SPHR -- if not for the recognition/advancement angle, then certainly for the education.

Parabeagle · December 2005

As one who came to HR early in his career - and has been crazy enough to stick around - my HR-related education came in the form of a certificate program from a local university. My BA is in history. I think the PHR/SPHR route is the way to go. A masters in HR might be beneficial depending on where you obtain it, but I just don't know. I'd put my money into a PHR or SPHR before I'd spring for a masters program. Most of the positions I'm seeing advertised in my part of the country ask for an undergrad degree and PHR/SPHR, or equivalent experience and a PHR/SPHR. So either way, the designation seems to be key for a lot of the larger companies.

Catbert Evil HR Director · December 2005

You left out your legal training!

AnneHa · December 2005

I agree that it's the experience that counts. My undergraduate degree is in history and I have a few master's credits in the HR line, but no intention of going further. Studying for the PHR/SPHR certification really pointed out what I needed to spend more time learning about. Our organization only has 80+ ees and the master's isn't really necessary. I'd rather direct my $$ toward the certification and some of the great symposiums and training classes designed specifically for HR professionals.

Anne in Ohio

Crout · December 2005

BA in Secondary Ed, history, and SPHR certification. Why not start with the PHR certification and go from there? You'll gain a lot of useful knowledge very quickly and you'll find out if HR is really your cup of tea. Utilizing the training resources on this site would also be beneficial to you.

Gillian3 · December 2005

I don't think that the BA or Masters in HR is as good as a general business BA or MBA. Then supplement with university certificate programs and the PHR/SPHR. Mine is a BA in Business and MPA (public administration)and SPHR.

Catbert Evil HR Director · December 2005

I just took the PHR and found that to be the best all-around training for HR. (I passed)
I have a BSBA in business and a J.D. While the legal training helps, I would NEVER advise anyone to go to law school. Two pieces of advice I give: No law school and Do not get married!

njjel · January 2006

I received my degree from the school of hard knocks! I would definitely recommend the SHRM certifications as they provide more directly related training. However as stated above, many smaller organizations are not aware of the value of that training. 80% of my knowledge has been gained through work experience and the balance was gained through attending workshops and other outside training courses, and the internet AND this forum!

Melanie · January 2006

Glad you posted that. I have a Bachelor's and Master's degree and the PHR. I was considering as my next step a J.D.
I get sooo frustrated when my boss won't take my word on how we should proceed on certain issues. It's as if my education and years of experience working with employment lawyers mean nothing to her. She always wants to call them instead of accepting my word, which is usually exactly what they end up advising us. I get frustrated that my word is not good enough for her, therefore, I was thinking that if I got the JD, maybe she'd finally listen.
Why don't you feel it's worth it?

hrnewby · January 2006

I have a degree in Physical Education - I can pass, dribble and shoot. It's surprising how much that helps in HR! The PHR definetly helped me, if for no other reason than it showed me what I DIDN'T know and gave me some direction.

Paul in Cannon Beach · January 2006

I am not totally sure I was even aware of the term "HR" back in college. I have a BA in English. I liked literature because there were no wrong answers.

After a few years of on the job HR training, reading books, attending seminars, and participating in this forum, I joined SHRM and earned my PHR. The PHR process helped me realize I had a pretty good basic understanding of HR.

If you are going to pursue the PHR/SPHR, I would recommend contacting your local SHRM chapter and see if you can join a study group. It helped me to keep on task and it was fun to celebrate when we all passed our exam.

Learn a few lines like "You know, I think there has been some recent updates on those federal statutes, let me look into it and get back to you." That can buy you some time.

Good luck! Its a noble profession.

WT · January 2006

There is no substitute for experience. Although I have a BS degree, I learned my HR basics on the union side and through hard knocks. When I made the transition to management, seminars and various trainings were important. Books and study guides can hardly be stressed enough. Let me suggest a few: Thompson Publishing Group on such things as FLSA, fringe benefits, COBRA, self funded healthcare plans, and HIPAA privacy, the classic work on arbitration is How Arbitration Works by Elkouri & Elkouri now in its fifth addition, the American Bar Association has some good volumes through BNA (Bureau of National Affairs) Discipline and Discharge in Arbitration by Norman Brand is good and they have many others, for substance abuse in the work place, Alcohol and Other Drugs Issues in Arbitration by Denenberg and Denenberg is a helpful volume. Most likely the Bar Association has a book on Workers Comp in your state and the various federal statutes from FMLA to USERRA can be downloaded fairly easily from various web sites. It is important to read and study because legal issues so often stray far away from the realm of common sense where we prefer to operate. The individual who knows more will perform better than the person who fails to study and research.

LarryC · January 2006

Back when I was in school HR was known as Industrial Relations or Personnel. I have a BS in mechanical engineering, an MBA, and an SPHR certification. This means I can design the widget, cost it out, and hire the people to make it. Then fire them when it's done.

I would recommend the PHR/SPHR certification route and learn all you can about the financial end of the business. More and more (especially in a growing company) you will be asked to tie your goals and sometimes your mere existence to the company's revenue and profit goals. You will do this especially if you want to be a key player in the organization. This will remove the perception of "fluff", "feel good", and "necessary expense" from your position. If you can speak on level terms with your Controller, your "in".

Good Luck!!

KathyHR · January 2006

I have a Bachelor of Science in HR Management and my PHR. A masters wouldn't get me any more money in the organization I'm in and I could just switch companies with the education I have if money was an issue.
I've been a participant in industry specific organizations as a member and speaker. Being a speaker made me really get to know the HR material I was presenting since I had to be ready to answer any question that could've come up. I also belong to a local monthly roundtable where information is exchanged and any HR question can be asked & is answered by someone who had to deal with it. These forums are also good to gain insight and see the various ways to deal with a situation. Hearing about real life situations and resolutions to HR problems has been more valuable to me than my schooling.

E Wart · January 2006

I have a BBA in Accounting with Minor in Finance and have my SPHR.
I too think expereience is the best teacher. Also take courses/symposiums as they come along and new laws are passed (not fads.)
Also, if you ever have a chance to work for a large company who can afford to "guide you" this is helpful. However, with a smaller company you get thrown in and may learn quicker and be more of a generalist. It depends on what you are looking for and what type of company you wish to work for. (Generalist? large or small company? money? title? satisfaction? etc.
I personally don't think that an MBA in HR is what you need. Just experience, which is how we learn.
E Wart

System · January 2006

What are your plans? If you want to stay with your currnet organization, how does your company view the importance of attaining advanced educational credentials? If it's a hot button for them, find out whether they prefer a specialized HR curriculum or an MBA. If you are more concerned about looking outside your company for career opportunities, I really beleive the most important facet of getting a new job is being able to convey your indepth and broad knowledge of HR issues, especially employment law. Get the experience, read a bunch, go to periodic employment law seminars (put on by reputable organizations) and go back to school only if it really is calling you. I have a Masters in Labor and Industial Relations which helped me land my very first job out of school. After that, only your own knowledge, skills and experience, coupled with your peformance track record, is all that really matters in the final analysis. As we all know, someone can have educational degrees up the ying-yang, but if they can't transform the education into effective performance on the job, its useless.

SMace · January 2006

If you are
>more concerned about looking outside your
>company for career opportunities, I really
>beleive the most important facet of getting a
>new job is being able to convey your indepth and
>broad knowledge of HR issues, especially
>employment law.

I disagree with that. I believe that the most important facet of getting a job in HR is being able to understand the BUSINESS and how HR relates to and can affect the business. IMHO a smart company doesn't want someone with broad, indepth knowledge of HR mumbo-jumbo, but someone with specific HR knowledge that can positively effect the bottom line.

System · January 2006

You're right. I wasn't implying that knowledge of the business is not critical, or the importance of having HR positively impact the bottom line. However, your characterizattion of in-depth HR knowledge as "mumbo-jumbo" is ridiculous. You might understand you business inside and out, but if you don't posses a solid understanding of HR practices, requirements and restraints, your worth to your company is pretty much zero. We are problably arguing both sides of an issue. Not to put words in your mouth, but I beleive we would both agree that the key to being a valuable asset is obviously the ability to combine a solid understanding of HR with an in-depth knowledge of the organization that employs you.

Curriculum vitae

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