Racial Epithet

I have a long-term (30+ year) employee who made a racial comment to some of my employees. They immediately came to me and told me what he said. After talking to several employees, I talked to the employee who made the comment. Of couse, he lied (big surprise). Now I have to finish my investigation and deliver the punishment. I feel immediate termination is in order, however, other managers feel that disciplinary suspension without pay would be better due to his long-term employment. Help! Anyone ever have this problem? x:-/
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  • 58 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • If this is the first time, I side with the managers. Termination is a tough penalty for a first offense of this nature, especially for a long service employee. Depending on what was said, suspension without pay might be too strong, but not knowing what it was, I can't say.
  • We had a job posting up. Several employees bid on the job including one black male and one supervisor (white). The black male was selected for the position due to capabilities. This employee said, how does the supervisor feel about getting beat out by a n(word)?
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-21-04 AT 03:21PM (CST)[/font][br][br][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-21-04 AT 03:19 PM (CST)[/font]

    I agree with my friend Gillian3. Termination for a remark, first offense, 30 year employee is indeed to harsh a penalty. What was said and in what context and to whom or about whom?

    (edit) Sorry, we posted at the same time. Termination is not warranted. Not knowing the employee's file, I think counseling is in order which I would probably advance to step 3 in our 5 step process.
  • I agree. Termination would be excessive. This individual does need to be disciplined, though, because that kind of remark is way, WAY out of line. (Sorry, my personal feelings are sneaking in here.) He needs to be counseled, sign a form with a write-up of the meeting, and follow your disciplinary policy. If you don't have one, get one. I'd send the guy home for three days without pay myself.
  • Don, would you share your "5 stop process" I am having real "issues" getting my company to stay consistent and follow a plan :-) Thanks! you can send it to
    [email]DMNuccio@flrad.com[/email]

  • Now that I know that it is the "n" word, I vote for the harshest penalty short of termination. This guy should know that the next time is "out".
  • Absolutely termination, if this is a first offense, is NOT warranted (IMHO). A 30-year employee with an otherwise good record deserves more consideration. I would probably suspend w/o pay for a couple of days to get the point across that we are serious about the issue, but if he's anything like some of the older employees I've dealt with in the past, he's of a generation that just doesn't get it (or, if he gets it he doesn't want to accept it), and may not grasp the gravity of the situation. A couple days off should help him get it.
  • He's an older employee that doesn't think that saying the n-word is wrong (in his mind).
  • Actually he doesn't have to agree that it's wrong. He only has to agree that he understands it will not be tolerated at the company and if he repeats it, he has no job there any longer. You don't have to teach an old dog new tricks, just let him learn quickly that pooping in the kitchen will get him tossed out the back door.
  • Don, that's the first smile I've had all day. Thanks for the "pooping" analogy. :)
  • I too would suspend without pay. However, I want you to know your statements about older employees are unkind and inappropriate - hate to generalize any group with negative statements!
  • Minimum, a "stearn" reprimand. But, based on what was said and knowing a little more history on this ee, a one or two day suspension may be warranted. I definetly would not terminate at this stage. But, I would make it clear in the suspension letter that future occurrences will result in further disciplinary action to include up to termination.
  • Actually, the fact that he is a long-term emplyee is irrelevant. Any of your employees who use this unacceptable word at the workplace have to be punished the same. Suspend one for a first offense, then you started a precedent. Terminate for a first offense - and that is a precedent, too.

    Chari
  • CWELLS: Why are you the appointed "hatchetman" is this person in HR? Are you the appointed investigator because the GM or CEO assigned you to do the investigation? Who gave you the knife? Why are you not completing the investigation and recommending punishment alternatives to his manager/supervisor? I, too, would recommend his manager take written action to suspend without pay and would possibly recommend we suspend the suspension. I would have to know more about the actual incident to determine if he/she deserves the right to remain an employee of this organization.

    Keep us posted as you proceed, again as I have often posted HRs should be a staff supporter whenever possible.

    PORK
  • We'd term, and have.

    About a year ago a customer made a request of a busy 50 plus year-old caucasian male lead - about three years service - who responds (he says jokingly), "I'm not your n*****." He's gone.

    A couple months ago, another employee - Native American, about three months service - said the same thing to another employee OVER THE RADIO. Another joke. Ha ha. He's gone.

    Where do you draw the line at what is offensive enough for discharge, and what is less offensive for suspension?
  • In neither example you gave, Leslie, were they 30-year employees. I still maintain that some degree of flexibility should be employed here because of the length of service and, I assume, otherwise clean record of the employee.

    In your case, they had only been employed for three years and three months, respectively. You don't have as much invested in these short-term employees as you do in one who has dutifully served for 30 years and screwed up on one occasion.

    No, I think a suspension is enough to get this employee's attention.
  • Okay - here we go again. Say I have a 30-year employee who does what the above two did. I don't discharge. What does that say about fairness of application of policy?
  • cwells - I'm interested in learning why you think immediate termination is in order. What did you uncover during the investigation that leads you to believe as strongly as you do? Maybe it's just the way you wrote about the issue on the thread, with no deeper meanings involved, however, you did say that this fellow doesn't think saying it was wrong - how do you know that? Did it come up during the investigation or has it come up before with this fellow? Anyway, why do you want to terminate?
  • We have a zero tolerance policy. If we don't terminate what does that say? By the way, he is not the "ideal" employee. He should have been terminated long before, but, let him off with a slap on the wrist (for different things). Just because he's a 30 year employee doesn't mean he should get a lesser punishment than a 5 year employee. Any way, after the investigation, him lying about the incident, he was given a final warning, suspended without pay and counseling through our EAP.
  • What ever you do to this guy be prepared to do the same thing to the next black you hear using the term. I wouldn't suspend or terminate. If he would have been talking face to face with some one and called them "nigger" I would view much more seriously, hostile and I would terminate in that instance. But then I could be wrong.
  • In this context, what does zero tolerance mean? Zero tolerance for what? The N word? Anything related to race? The use of a slang term such as Chink? Calling someone nappy headed? Saying the word Honky? Saying 'You white folk'? Talking about Japs on December 7? Zero tolerance needs definition.
  • Don D wrote
    In this context, what does zero tolerance mean? Zero tolerance for what? The N word? Anything related to race? The use of a slang term such as Chink? Calling someone nappy headed? Saying the word Honky? Saying 'You white folk'? Talking about Japs on December 7? Zero tolerance needs definition.

    I my opinion zero tolerance is zero tolerance. The "N" word is inappropriate no matter how it comes out or where it is said. The person that made the comment about if "Black" people say it they should suffer the same consequences, you are darn right, they should. There is no justification for it no matter who saids it. I think the 30 yr employee should have been terminated the minute he said it. I wonder how he made it 30 years in that company having never been heard saying it before. IN MY OPINION People that say that word, don't just start saying it out of the blue, they have been saying it for a while and/or thinking it. Also inappropriate talk is inappropriate talk. Also guess what Don I have been called nappy headed at work and guess what my hair was and is nappy.
  • You're also an agitator. My question was posed to the originator of this thread as food for thought. It was intended to point out that the words 'inappropriate' and 'zero tolerance' need some form of definition other than coming from one's personal experience or emotional reaction, which is where yours seems to originate. A word in itself is not intrinsically bad or wrong or hurtful. It is in the context or meaning in which the word exists or is used and how it is intended. A black who uses the 'N' word in jest to another should NOT be fired. I know 90 year old people who do not have a hurtful or discriminatory bone in their being who use that word simply because that is the way they grew up pronouncing it and hearing it pronounced and they played together and struggled together on the same dirt sharecropper farms and slept together and ate together and sat on each other's mommas laps together.

    Saying "We are a zero tolerance company" has absolutely no meaning, as I pointed out in my prior message. It cannot apply only to what you call 'The N Word'. Nor can discipline be meted out based on your recollection of having been called nappy headed or what another poster said he had been called in his past. Those are emotional reactions and cannot float the boat in a viable HR Department. I do notice that the only times you have shown up to post is as an agitator and instigator. Perhaps you might decide one day to join in with a good, thoughtful question or some helpful suggestions to those of us who do pose questions.

    Otherwise you can continue to peruse threads and selectively pick out the posts you don't like and insert your personal, emotional observations that offer nothing constructive.
  • Don! Call me what you want. But, the last time I checked I was "free" to respond whenever I wanted to whatever I wanted.

    Funny, I didn't get mad and call you names!!!!!(smile)

    Also, DO not tell me when me when to post or what to post. If you don't like what I said, then please don't read it.





  • I would love for you to post, often. I merely suggest you should not just agitate.
  • I'm sorry I caused such an uproar. x:-(
  • We have a zero tolerance policy. If he isn't terminated, what kind of message is that sending? He isn't your "ideal" employee. He has had different problems in the past. His punishment was suspension without pay, final warning and counseling through our EAP.
  • cwells: YOUR COMPANY NOW HAS A "zero tolerance policy" + 1 other opporturnity to fail, if you are a 30 year employee. Now that ain't so bad unless you are the 29 year employee that uses the "N" word, or the "W" word, or the "H" word or the "ABC" word in any kind of communication that could be considered anything other than professional language.

    PORK
  • We would have fired him immediately and have done so in a similar situation. If he had made the comment to or about a client wouldn't that qualify for immediate termination? Why should a client be given more respect than a fellow employee.
  • Having had that word used against me in the past, it is difficult to explain how degrading it makes one feel. You said that the employee lied to you during the investigation also. In my organization he is long gone, regardless of length of service.
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