Not him again!!!

scantey · July 2003

I have an employee who just got back from a 5 day suspension for various violations of insubordination. He has completely used up his sick and personal days and is now asking for a 5 day leave (unpaid) for personal reasons. He is telling me he has a family emeregency but is not willing to tell me what it is... He assures me it is not a death or illnes but can not give me any more details. I have almost had it with this employee but feel if it is a true family emergency to give him yet another chance... What would you do?

Whatever · July 2003

If it was any other ee but this one, what would you do? Look to your companies attendance policies etc. and also, what has been done in the past. An employee who is coming off a suspension, who has used up all personal and/or sick days who comes to me and says "I have a family emergency, but I won't tell you what it is." would not get a leave. I would instead tell them what company policy is on not reporting to work.

Balloonman · July 2003

I agree, if a person can't give you the reason needed for the leave then how can you make a sound decision on it?
No leave.
My $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman

HRsage · July 2003

Do you have a policy on granting personal leave? Like does he have to be in good standing to be granted a leave? My first thought would be not to grant the leave, and if he still goes then there's your chance to get rid of him. He's telling you it's a family emergency but won't say what it is- that sounds a little shady to me. I'd maybe try to see if it qualified for FMLA(if he ever tells you)and if not then don't grant it. How many chances are you willing to give this guy? Just my thoughts.

ray a · July 2003

I had an employee who last fall requested a 5 week leave for family reasons. It came out that it was to take a temp job in another state. He took that job and lost his here.

Sounds too fishy. Don't grant the leave.

LindaS · July 2003

I agree with the rest. If the reason for the leave is important enough, he will tell you the reason. If he doesn't tell you the reason, don't grant it.

We just terminated our union president last week who reported for work late, without calling first. He was terminated according to our attendance policy. Prior to the termination meeting, he was asked by his supervisor what was going on and his response was "personal reasons". During the actual termination meeting, when asked why he was late he responded, "Personal reasons". After terminating he asked for, and was granted, a meeting with the company president and mfg. director. At this meeting he FINALLY told them why he was late. He was told, sorry - too late to come clean now.

Pork · July 2003

SEND THE EE TO HIS SUPERVISOR/MANAGER FOR THEIR DECISION TO LET THE EE OFF OR DENY THE EE PERSONAL TIME OFF! I just "do not" continue to understand some posting; my advise is to get out of the middle of employee/supervisor/manager issues. HR has a power of consult and influence, but direct action and final decision making is not the place you want to have the HR, except in the areas of documentation in granting the interest and orders of operational managers. Even in FMLA and investigations I always insure I know the interest and desires of management. With the exception of termination for positive drug testing, this is where I draw the line. This week I terminated an employee who was well respected by the operational management team. It was done and only the General Manager knew what I was about to do. The Production Manager (the senior leader) called and was upset and wanted to know why I did not tell him prior. The answer is simple, he was a member of the chain of review & over-ride, if I had told him prior, he would not be able to lissen to any appeal. The production manager was very nice and supportive of my actions and methods. He wants the employee back, we will assist to the degree possible without damaging our Drug Testing Policy. The message to others, who choose to go against a Drug Free Workplace program is "we make no exceptions, regardless of their statue in the "rank and file" of this company", if you play around with drugs you will be gone!!! GET OUT OF THE MIDDLE AND SAVE YOUR POWER FOR THE IMPORTANT ISSUES IN YOUR WORLD, YOU WILL LIVE A LOT LONGER AND YOU'LL ENJOY HR A LOT BETTER!!! PORK

POPEYE · July 2003

>SEND THE EE TO HIS SUPERVISOR/MANAGER FOR THEIR DECISION TO LET THE EE
>OFF OR DENY THE EE PERSONAL TIME OFF! I just "do not" continue to
>understand some posting; my advise is to get out of the middle of
>employee/supervisor/manager issues.
GET OUT OF THE MIDDLE >AND SAVE YOUR POWER FOR THE IMPORTANT ISSUES IN YOUR WORLD, YOU WILL >LIVE A LOT LONGER AND YOU'LL ENJOY HR A LOT BETTER!!! PORK

Preach it Brother Pork!!!! My sentiments exactly. I'm always here to try and offer advice if asked but unless there are unusual circumstances, the sups and/or mgrs take care of the "Little" things and I can spend more time surfing this forum.

Pork · July 2003

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!!TO DAY MY ASSISTANT IS OUT ON THE RODE ENROLLING 6 NEW EMPLOYEES AT REMOTE LOCATIONS, AND INTERVIEWING ANOTHER 8 WITH 3 BEING POTENTIAL NEW EMPLOYEES STARTING TO WORK TOMORROW AND HERE I MA PRACTICING MY SPELLING AND HR WORK. MY ADDICTION, TO THIS NET IS REALLY DANGEROUS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GUYS AND GIRLS PUBLICLY ACLAIM MY POSTING TO BE WORTH WHILE.
I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED TO MY SELF IS THIS MISUSE OF COMPANY PROPERTY OR ABUSE OF COMPANY PROPERTY? Probably both, but it is business related. As a result of these chats I often audit my policy, guides, and knowledge. This last week I got hot and heavy into HIPAA again because of postings that led me to believe that maybe I was not right in my positions on some issues. It was gratifying to recognize that I remained right! PORK

System · July 2003

Tell him that you've reached a decision about his leave request but you can't tell him what it is. x}>

James Sokolowski
HRhero.com

Pork · July 2003

I agree with James; however, I would tell him to go back to his immediate chain of concern for they have the answer! PORK

scantey · July 2003

Thank you all for your input. Normally I would not have to make this decision but since the Supervisor is out on FMLA I was left no choice. I have denied his request and if he shows up tomorrow it will be a miracle but if he does not then he has violated our attendance policy and will seal his own fate. He still does not want to disclose his reasons but he has told me that it is not covered by FMLA.Thanks for your input.

safety · August 2003

This could be a good thing for you in that the ee may be looking for another job and may just self-terminate. We had a similar situation where an ee asked for a vacation that was not due for several months. We granted the non-paid leave and in that week he found other employment. I am happy that I did not have to terminate this ee and, I lost a problem ee. xclap

Luz · August 2003

I would not give the leave until the employee verified the emergency leave, given this particular employee's history.

Don D · August 2003

I disagree with Pork, who shares my state, and with Popeye, who shares my city name and my first name. I believe that HR has a responsibility to ensure consistency in policy application in exactly such matters as administering the leave policies of the company, including leaves of absence. To have multiple managers practicing their separate brands of leave granting and paying varying degrees of attention to consistency and sound practice is to invite multiple charges of all sorts of things. I firmly believe you must involve the department manager, but only up to the point of making his suggestion to you, then you take it and apply the consistency test since your department (HR) has the historical perspective.

And meanwhile, Pork, who insists he only operates within an advisory/feduciary realm, has just stated something about HIS POLICY. Am I seeing a contradiction here Pork?

ray a · August 2003

With a personal leave of absence, I make the final decision based on the input from the ee's supervisor/manager. I use the gage of does it fit our business needs for that person to be absent and what is the reason they are giving. Will it hurt the business for this ee to be gone and is the reason valid? I know, I am being subjective. If workload is heavy and the person wants time off to build a new barn, the answer may be no. If the workload is light, and we are having trouble finding work to keep people busy, most any reason will be accepted. Obviously, supervision/management needs to define the state of the business and the impact of the LOA. Based on their input I make a decision and make sure they agree. It may be subjective, but it is based on the specifics of the case and it is always through my "filter", not the whim of the super/mgr.

Pork · August 2003

"DANDY DON" it is only in the eyes of the beholder. Strong leadership keeps managers/supervisors in an organization operating under the control of the strongest leader, the HR, and they don't even know it. That is why I get paid the BIG BUCKS, and have everyones support. You are not really disagreeing with me, we are on the same page, and acting in the same way, I am just more of the "Southern Gentleman" and the "persuasive leader" than you understand me to be! Quite and forceful guidance goes a long ways in keeping hormony and success in line and preforming, May your day be continually Blessed.

You too can eat more pork, and feel better in the end!

PORK

HR in Okla · August 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-12-03 AT 04:22PM (CST)[/font][p]Scantey, After a few days lapse, I'm always wondering about the rest of the story. What happened when you told him his request was denied? Did he show up or self-terminate?

scantey · August 2003

Just a brief update:
I did deny his request after he continually told me that he could not discuss his reasons for wanting the time- He showed up on Monday and has been here everyday thereafter (AND ON TIME). Hopefully he is changing his ways- only time will tell. thanks again for all your advise...

Not him again!!!

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