EE confesses to use invalid SS#

jbanda · March 2003

I have an employee that confess that she has been working with an invalid SS#, she has been working us for 5 years. I realized that I can terminate her. She confess that she now has her own SS# and valid work authorization from INS. what's the legal thing to do? should I terminate? rehire? change SS#?, she is a very good employee, but I want to do the right and legal thing.

With all the changes in the INS and the IRS, I can see this will be a hot topic at least in Texas. Anybody with some knowledge in this matter?

thanks,

cebudragonlady · March 2003

We had an employee who did that exact same thing, first confessing and then coming up with a valid ss#. All we did was change the 2002 W-2 and quarterly/annual reports to reflect the real number .

Chari

HRsage · March 2003

We've done this also. If the ee now has updated and valid information I believe the employer is within the law to simply update the proper forms
(I-9 and W-4) with the new info. I remember reading this somewhere on the INS website that I was once referred to. I think it's also been mentioned on the forum before. It might set a precedent to other ee's that may want the same treatment later on, if need be. That's something that you would have to think about also. Did the ee come forward on their own or were they confronted due to an audit? Ours came forward on their own and they were in good standing. That may or may not matter to you.

Granhel · March 2003

Is this not fraud? Is this not the same thing as lying on their application to any other question? What is your policy dealing with falsification of application. To me, the same rule would apply. In my company, it would be automatic termination. This is especially tough if the person has been a very good employee.

What other document besides the social security card did they use for your I-9? If I understand you correctly, you have been working an illegal immigrant for 5 years. You can be cited big time for that if you become aware of the situation and do not rectify it. If your company has an attorney, this is definitely a 'consult' time.

System · March 2003

If you don't do this already, may I suggest that you verify this new social security number with SSA to make sure this person isn't giving you another bad number. If the employee gives you a new ID, like an employment authorization card, look at it carefully. This is to protect you and your company, and since this person presented a bad # in the past, you need to make sure that the documents being presented now are valid. The above post regarding falsification of information offers another valid point that I would think about, too. Good luck with this.

Balloonman · March 2003

My first thought was terminate...........but some say I am heartless at times, go figure. Interesting dilemma, an employee who has lied, falsified documents, but is a very good employee. They lied and falsified the documents maybe out of desperation, I don't know. Is the falsification of the paperwork more or less significant then falsifying a timecard? The reason I ask, is I have terminated, without hesitation those who have falsified timecards. Just something to think about.
Glad I am not making the decision.
My$0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman

jimlegal · March 2003

As for the I-9 you may wish to review the information on the following link which addresses your question.

[url]http://www.immigration.gov/graphics/howdoi/faqeev.htm[/url]

As for providing false documents or information to the Company, that is an issue that must be handled through your company policy. If others have been disciplined or terminated for providing false documents or information, I would be concerned about showing favortism. Hope you find this information helpful.

Leslie · March 2003

Hate to say it - good employee or no - I would term, and have. We had a supervisor, great employee, owned a home, car loans, the whole nine yards. I authorized a company audit of our I9s and lo and behold - he was doing all this on a fake SSN. We have at least 200 resident aliens working, there was no way around it. We termed.

Yahoo · March 2003

I would terminate. If she will lie about the SS#, what else will she lie about? I had to do this once - one of our top performers (who had been with us for 20 years), falsified a dr. note to extend her disability leave. We considered this to be "gross misconduct" and terminated immediately. Good luck - these are never easy.

LFernandes · March 2003

I was in the same situation. I had an employee working for me for 5 years when I received a letter from SSA stating that her social didn't match. When I asked her about it, she confessed that she had falsely used someone else's greencard and social. She was terminated on the spot and escourted from the building. It was a tough decision because she was a great employee but I wouldn't let my supervisor (who pleaded her case) to sway my decision. It was my responsibility to protect the company.

Good luck.

LF

Balloonman · March 2003

So jbanda,
Just curious, what did you decide to do?
DJ The Balloonman

SDDCHR · March 2003

We're anxiously awaiting your response! What was your decision?

jimlegal · March 2003

Okay, don't keep us in suspense any longer. What did you decide to do?

jbanda · March 2003

I decided to term the employee, It was a very difficult decision to make but it was the legal thing to do even do my human side was telling me not to do it. We have many resident aliens and terminating the EE was the only way out, but I have to disagree with some of you'll, falsifying a timcard, or a doctor's note is not the same then falsifying a SS# (legaly it is but humanly is not), falsifying a SS# is the ONLY way out ("survival") for people that come from
poor countries, I have been to counties like central america or mexico I can tell you that I probably would of done the same thing if I was living on the same living conditions.

thanks for everyones input and suggestions, they were very helpful.

Pork · March 2003

Whoa back there dawgees! There is a National Origin issue here. We have had 13 current employees confess; based on a federal law these employees are protected. President Bush and President Fox of Mexico signed agreements and the USA extended a protection of those who confessed and we employers assisted with preparation of application for status change. 8 have been terminated and we have notified DOL, that their applications sponsored by my company are cancelled. 5 employees remain with us and we have provided them with a copy of our application submission. Last week I was notified (2 years to the month) that these applications are finally getting some attention. Once DOL approves their application, we will submit to INS the documentation required to effect a change in status from "undocument worker w/ false documentation" to legal resident with new permit and a real SSN#. In the mean time: we nor any other agency in our country can harass them including law enforcement of any kind! However, if they leave our employment and go back to Mexico, or wherever they have come from, they will not be able to use the old IDs and come back into our country. One of our illegal immigrants has been getting harassed by a local "county mounty" I have stepped into the picture with a copy of their application and informed the local sheriff that it would be best for the local authorities to stop harassment or she will get an attorney. So far the harassment has stopped!

Bottom line is make sure you are not in a retailatory mode, especially, when the employee has been a good employee! One can go on line with the DOL or INS and get copies of the federal forms and read about the federal law on these situations. I believe the form is a ETA 750, which is the application for the authority to have an illegal immigrant employed" "APPLICATION FOR ALIEN EMPLOYMENT CERTIFICATION"!

If I had caught the individual through my background research, we would have terminated immediately!! Once there is a CONFESSION SITUATION and a request for assistance in staying on board with our company our EPA policy kicks in; a reasonable accomodation kicks in which is the application action was followed.

I believe the Presidental extention is still in place. I know the DOL and INS are both working on the 1.6 million cases filed in the year 2001 & 2002.

Happy days are here again with more HR opportunities to succeed! Pork

EE confesses to use invalid SS#

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