He hears "voices"

shelby · March 2003

I have an employee in a low-paying, fairly unskilled position that is very much a loner, both at work and at home. He gets in "moods" sometimes where he acts strangely. Never anything violent, but just strange. His manager and I sat down with him and he told us that he hears voices. He seems to feel he can tell what other people are thinking about him. He even mentioned that he knows people drive by his house with laser beams that they shoot through the walls of his house and can tell everything he is doing. No, I'm not making any of this up.

I am completely convinced that he needs some medical or psychiatric intervention, but do not now how I can legally or ethically approach him with my concerns. He is a very mild-mannered individual, but when he is having one of his "episodes" I become very concerned just how me might react if he felt confronted by another individual. I am concerned not only for his welfare, but the safety of our other employees.

He has psychiatric coverage under our group medical plan. He would be eligible for FMLA if needed. We do not have an EAP and are not unionized. I truly appreciate any input and guidance you can give me.

Gillian · March 2003

You are on the right track. You should call your EAP and ask them how to approach the individual, then follow their suggestion - which will probably be a referral. If your EAP is on site quite often, as ours is, I would try to arrange a meeting between the employee and the EAP person. Hopefully, the employee will welcome the help - opening up to you is an indication that he might.

jules2001 · March 2003

Without an EAP, that makes it difficult. Perhaps you can still just suggest that he see a doctor.
It seems that it could become a liability to your company as he has told you these things already. Also, it goes back to the post about if you do require him to get medical attention, is he then covered under ADA.

sonny · March 2003

Gillian's advice is good but I think they do NOT have an EAP. You might try your local Community Mental Health Center. Am curious, does his work performance suffer when he is not doing well? I am a believer in trying to go at it from that angle.

shelby · March 2003

You are correct Sonny. We do NOT have an EAP. No, his performance does not suffer at all so I cannot address it from that angle. His attendance is also excellent, so that rules that out also. He also does not cause problems with his manager or co-workers. I feel I've run out of ways to approach it from any type of job performance angle, but still feel strongly that I need to do something.

Gillian · March 2003

I misread the part about the EAP. Since you don't have one, get a consult from a mental health professional. It will be worth it.

System · March 2003

We had a longtime ee who was always gentle and curteous to everyone. In the space of a few months she started becoming irritable, snappish and downright mean to her fellow employees. She started talking about how her new desk was going to go into the closet (She doesn't have a position that requires a desk)where there is a light so that she can see. There were other bizarre comments. She started ordering other employees around who were her supervisors and generally becoming a menace.
After consulting my legal advisor, we had a meeting with her and gently told her that we had noticed a change in her behavior recently that was becoming disruptive to the work environment and her fellow ee's. We asked her to take a leave of absence under FMLA and seek the appropriate help before she returned to work.

sonny · March 2003

What happened Deez?

System · March 2003

She still hasn't come back. This happened a few weeks ago. I hear she checks in with her manager every once in a while.

Balloonman · March 2003

Well the big question is does he listen to these voices? If so maybe a small speaker hidden in his work area and you could plant subliminal messages to play when you see he is "in the zone". Seek help.......find work elswhere.........wash the HR manager's car..........things like that.
Or if he is a general good apple outside of this maybe pay for a few sessions with an EAP to get him started.
My $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman

sonny · March 2003

My sense of humor can be as dark as the next guy's, but gotta pick on you for a minute here Baloonman..If this guy had diabetes or cancer, I bet there would be no jokes. Serious mental illnesses can be devasting to those who have them and their family members as well. Having to deal with medications and their side effects as well as the symptoms and stigma can be a monumental task. Thank you for allowing me on my mental health soap box one more time.

DeidreFR5 · March 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 03-12-03 AT 09:12AM (CST)[/font][p]We currently have an employee out on FMLA for similar reasons. We approached it from a disciplinary angle - disruptive to the work environment. Because it was disciplinary, we were able to require him to have medical clearance to return to work. Luckily we did that, he is a severe diabetic (didn't know it) and also, has mental illness. While he is out on FMLA he is being seen by a medical doctor, psychiatrist and psychologist to try and work out a continuing treatment plan. He checks in every week and seems to be improving. He can't thank us enough and can't wait to get back to work.

globex · March 2003

I hope you are kidding!! This is not advice. IF he actually hears voices, it will not be long before he starts acting on them. Anything as intrusive as you "suggest" would probably put someone over the edge. Are you really in HR?

Rockie · March 2003

Hearing voices and seeing things that don't exist is a sign of severe mental illness. Even though his work has not suffered as of yet, you never know when this psychosis might manifest itself in other ways, i.e, targeting employees, becoming violent, etc. I believe I would get some feedback from a viable mental health entity as to how you should approach this individual.

Otherwise, if you have good rapport with him, I would just voice my concerns that he is seeing and hearing "things" that obviously bother him and he should consider seeking assistance in how to deal with these "visions".

ray a · March 2003

Our company does not have an EAP either, but our health insurance does partially cover mental illness. One suggestion that I did a couple of years ago, I worked out a deal with our local hospital that does offer EAP services to provide a service for one employee. We were billed for the service on a pay as you go plan. It was tailored for the individual. You might want to look into something like that.

Margaret Morford · March 2003

I am concerned that what you describe are all signs of potential workplace violence... hearing imaginary voices, paranoia, people with lasers, etc. I would sit down with the employee and tell him you are concerned about the things he told you and you want to help him have a better life. Persuade him to go get professional help through your insurance and watch that situation closely for any signs of escalating behavior.

Margaret Morford
theHRedge
615-371-8200
[email]mmorford@mleesmith.com[/email]
[url]http://www.thehredge.net[/url]

ritaanz · March 2003

Well, here's the cynic's experience. I had a technician working for us who was a good worker, quiet and kept to himself. He was with us for about 5 years and lived at home with his mother. When his mother died, his personality started to change. He became loud, abusive and left his work station frequently. Fellow employees would find notes on their chairs and desks telling them Mr. Gun was on his way. He would leave signs on his desk saying "Mr. Gun lives here". Needless to say, the problem was brought to HR and told "You fix it".

I figured, what can he do, shoot me? I asked his supervisor to send him to my office. I then proceeded to outline his work history, before and after his mom's death. I asked a simple question, Why? His answer was that he was lonely and had no one here. He wanted to go to Florida but was too insecure to resign so he figured that if we terminated him he could relocate to FL and collect unemployment. I granted him his wish. Wheeeew!

WOCO Frank · March 2003

Of course, you're also ignoring the possibility that he really can hear what people are thinking and there really are people shooting lasers into his house.

Margaret Morford · March 2003

Where have you been? We've missed you. Haven't had a good haiku in weeks. If you search the Forum, we put out an APB on you a few weeks back!

Margaret Morford
theHRedge
615-371-8200
[email]mmorford@mleesmith.com[/email]
[url]http://www.thehredge.net[/url]

Terri · March 2003

People who hear voices are definitely suffering mental illness of some sort. One experience I had was with a young fellow who heard voices, saw things that were not there, thought there was a micro chip in his TV that people could watch him through. It just went on and on. He was finally diagnosed as a manic schizophrenic. Then I had the neighbor that was also a schizophrenic. One early morning he shot his Dad and then himself. Another experience was a co-workers brother who also heard voices. This one closed himself in a closet and shot himself. He lived for a couple of weeks....long enough to tell his sister that he heard voices telling him to do this. The devastation is unbearable. Hopefully, you will be able to steer this person in the direction of professional help before he hurts himself or someone else....or both. :-(

bethann · March 2003

Your post made me laugh. You described about 20 of our best employees! Our company is in an empowerment zone, of ther inner city (detroit). As long as his work performance is not suffering, he is not trheatening ohters, he is on time and does what is asked of him, them what is the problem?? Becareful not to single him out. You could be hit for a discrimination suit. If he talks to you about his "problem", you can suggest counseling and let him know what his insurance will cover, and offer to find him a doctor and set up an appointment. I do this on a regular basis (considering that i am dealing with ee that have a 3rd grade reading comprehension, they are grateful for the help). Also if you try to force him to see a doctor, you could potentially have the americans with disabilities ppl on your tail. If he is a good employee, and is just alittle strange.. let it go.

SMace · March 2003

bethann,
I cannot believe your response. Did you read the posts above and below? Those posts show you the result of "let it go". Doing that would be a disservice to the company and the individual. Clearly the individual is beyond a little strange. The attitude of "let it go" in the past has led to many workplace shootings and deaths that effect many people's lives. I'm stunned.

sonny · March 2003

I wasn't going to jump in here again, but wanted to give a little support to Beth Ann. I worked with people with serious mental illness for over 20 years. I agree with those posts that say there is POTENTIAL here for trouble (and that there should some intervention) but it is not guaranteed. Human behavior never is. People here have shared some very sad stories of the darkest sides of mental illness, but Beth Ann is right. Not all people with these symptoms are going to go out and kill someone. As Bethann notes and I personally experienced, folks can continue to work with many of these symptoms and never hurt a fly. In this case it is better, I think, to err to the cautious side, but please don't make the assumption that all people with serious mental illness who may display unusual behavior are suicidal or homicidal. Just aint the case. Thank you, I am done now. Hope we hear how this turns out.

SMace · March 2003

Sonny, you hit the nail on the head. You have to look at each situation for what it's worth. But you have to have some type of intervention, you can't just do nothing. That is what I read bethann advising. My reason to post was my thinking that Shelby could possibly take that advice and God forbid this ee turns out to be a person with mental illness that is violent.

xsafford · March 2003

I had a similar employee who heard voices, was sent home and proceeded to murder her brother because the voice told her to. This is a sign of serious mental illness. In your shoes I would personally take this person to a psychiatrist, and the consequences be damned. I don't want someone's death on my conscience. This person has a problem that a medical professional needs to evaluate. Before having them return to the workplace I want this medical professional to tell me that the employee is OK. Sometimes you just have to do the right thing, and worry about the bureaucratic niceties second.

jimlegal · March 2003

I would be extremely concerned not only about the employees health, but the health & safety of fellow employees. You have the right to ask for a medical examination provided it is job related and consistent with business necessity. You may wish to review those rights under ADA. I found good information about medical examinations requested under ADA on the EEOC website. We have used this medical examination request a few times.

Nick Ogden · March 2003

Currently dealing with 2 cases closely related to this situation. There is no work related problem, but both EE suffer from severe anxiety and DSS. We do not have an EAP program or mental counseling through our health benifits program. I found a referal program available through DSHS to Community Mental Health (regional support). The counseling is FREE to the employee. Both EE have been to several sessions and their feedback to me is very positive. These EE were spending $600-800/month on their meds. Sometimes we "luck out" and truly are able to "do the right thing". I, too, have been ther when an employee killed their spouse and committed suicide. Don't need it again.

shelby · March 2003

Thank you all for your responses and guidance. To make what could be a long story short, his manager and I spoke with him again this morning. After a lengthy discussion (primarily him talking) the discussion again began to get very "bizare" and he allowed me (after somewhat strong urging) to make an appointment at a local behavioral health clinic for an assessment. He is there as we speak. Now I can only hope that things turn out well. I will keep you updated. Thanks again for your insight.

mrbill · March 2003

Prior to reading any of the responses - Had a very similar situation, voices, etc., Even to the extent that the ee inflicted damage to himself. Both the Plant Nurse & I spoke to his Psychiatric counselor, and passed on our concerns. We did not ask for any return medical information, excepting that we would not allow the ee back to work without a Medical clearance letter.
Based on the story as presented, you have a right to be concerned and should demand assistance for the individual, for the safety of the workers.

Shawn · March 2003

Put a tape recorder in his office with a message that repeats "quit your job" every few minutes. Hopefully, that will resolve your situation.

He hears "voices"

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