Psychological Testing
cappy
217 Posts
I am the H/R Captain of a Fire & EMS organization. As such we are required, under the Virginia Administrative Code, to conduct background investigation and conduct a hiring process commensurate with the level of pubic accountability our profession has. Obviously that has to be quite a complete investigation.
My question is can anyone help me with any information concerning the use of psychological testing as a part of the hiring process? Do you do it? What are the legal concerns? What are the pitfalls? Advantages? Where can I find employment law guidance that would illuminate the application of pyschological testing for use by the public sector as opposed to the private sector?
TXHRGUY you are among the best 'heads' around here along with a few others. I would appreciate any words of wisdom from anyone.
Thanks
Comments
My husband is in public safety and his department uses psychological testing. As far as I am aware, most departments are using these types of tests now due to the nature of the job. It has to do with the level of authority these individuals have, the adrenaline these positions produce and the outcome when a person is affected by this adrenaline.
When my husband recently added another speciality to his profession he had to go through psychological testing. As part of that they call and ask the "significant other" questions regarding his personality, how he handles stress, if he had ever hit me, if he ever thought about hitting me (as much as there are times I like to think I know exactly what my husband is thinking, I just can't read his mind all the time!!) and others. Of course I was curious so I asked the practioner why he was asking these questions. He told me that individuals in public safety have a high rate of divorce, domestic abuse, and even suicide because of the nature of the job. They need to make that the person is mentally sound to do the job and will be able to handle all the stress that comes with the position.
I tried to look to find some information on VA law. Unfortunately VA does not have as good of a website as Maryland does for Labor Laws. Even Maryland's website doesn't compare to what some of the folks on here have shown us for Texas. I wish all states had a website like Texas does. I think VA makes it hard to find information in the statutes.
Thanks for your kind words.
My brother is a fire captain, I will ask him about his thoughts on this as well although he's on the other side of the nation from you.
Job relatedness and selection instrument/process quality (uniform guidelines on selection) and avoiding improper medical inquiry (ADA) are key.
The uniform guidelines lay out what are essentially rules about the quality of testing instruments selection processes that you can use. It's science stuff like test validity mixed with standard EEOC legal standards of employment practices like job-relatedness and fairness. It's a "best practice" document in most regards. If you are going to use any sort of formal test, there are going to be rather strict requirements on quality and job relatedness. Private employers routinely do things that violate the uniform guidelines (e.g., using tests not designed for selection for selection purposes) but I doubt that would be a good idea in the public sector. I imagine it depends somewhat on the oversight to which your selection process will be subjected.
ADA basically says you can't make any sort of medical query other than whether or not a person is capable of performing a job related task. If it is possible to be a one-armed fireman, than asking questions about two-armed tasks would be illegal. Caveat: I have never worked in the public sector and I do not know the public employer ins and outs of these things. There may be special allowances for public employees that will allow you to make inquiries that private employers cannot. I rather suspect there will be at least some limitations imposed by ADA. The examples above could be seen as job related but I could see a public agency losing in a suit assuming they have to play by private employer rules (divorce and spousal abuse are not job-related task performance, although one could argue that those behaviors lead to absenteeism and poor performance, but so does cigarette smoking and alcohol abuse and there is some evidence that cigarette questions are becoming acceptable). Just because someone could lose a suit does not mean that the practice isn't done or shouldn't be done, it just means that nobody knows what the outcome would be if someone challenged it. In any event, public employers generally get exemptions exactly because beat cops, ATF, FBI agents and perhaps also fire fighters should be subjected to a higher degree of scrutiny because a) the taxpayers pay their paychecks; b) they will be held to a higher standard than John Q. Public; c) they do dangerous things; and d) they do things that, if done improperly, could harm (kill) innocent bystanders.
When you refer to the tests you have in mind as "psychological" tests, that covers a wide, wide area. Are you trying to test for compatible personalities to avoid dischord in the fire hourse? Looking for people who don't wilt under pressure (when the heat's on??) Trying to find really smart people because they train faster or live longer? A lot depends on what criteria you want to select. Walk backwards from the properties you want your employees to have toward tests that measure those properties.
http://www.uniformguidelines.com/
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/emp/uniformguidelines.php
IT
We talk with the neighbors and family to get an all around view of the community spirit an applicant may have. Reputation goes a long way. We do not ask direct questions involving spousal abuse though I know that the PD does. But there is a caveat in the law that disqualifies PD officers for spousal abuse that does not exist for firefighters.
It is true that police, fire and ems people and doctors too have a high rate of divorce. After so much trauma visualized each day short circuits can occur. I was a field supervisor for thirty years before moving to a desk job. Thanks for your help.
ADA basically says you can't make any sort of medical query other than whether or not a person is capable of performing a job related task. If it is possible to be a one-armed fireman, than asking questions about two-armed tasks would be illegal. Caveat: I have never worked in the public sector and I do not know the public employer ins and outs of these things. There may be special allowances for public employees that will allow you to make inquiries that private employers cannot. I rather suspect there will be at least some limitations imposed by ADA.[/quote]
That was my greatest concern. I am struggling to word something as job related and meet the ADA requirements at the same time. The material difference between us and police is the level of force that may be used. We both have a high degree of police accountability, true, but are different in that regard.
[quote]When you refer to the tests you have in mind as "psychological" tests, that covers a wide, wide area. Are you trying to test for compatible personalities to avoid dischord in the fire hourse? Looking for people who don't wilt under pressure (when the heat's on??) Trying to find really smart people because they train faster or live longer? A lot depends on what criteria you want to select. Walk backwards from the properties you want your employees to have toward tests that measure those properties.[/quote]
Sounds like good advice. I sent an inquiry out to the Innovation Group but have not got responses back from fire people. Must police people have sent good info for how and why they do psych testing.
Part of my interview process and background check involve how well the candidate interacts with people in house and under stress. So far it has been effective but I want to go to the next level.
Thanks for the links and your feedback. I look forward to what you find out from your brother. Tell hi a fellow Captain says hi!
http://www.uniformguidelines.com/
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/emp/uniformguidelines.php
TXHRGUY
I posted a response and I have no idea where it went. Don't be surprised if there is another.
I was concerned about how ADA would work with such a test. PD's all over the nation do psych testing. They are materially different from us due to the level of force they may use. PD has a different level of accountability when spousal abuse occurs as well. We complete a sex offenders background investigation, prior employment, neighborhood and reference check on all candidates. There is a high degree of accountability and responsibility for a firefighter or EMS person having their hands on you or being exposed to your personal and valuable property. I want to move to the next level to avoid any possible negligent hiring suit.
Those are some good suggestions, walk back wards from what I want this to be. I'll check the links closely as well. I'm looking forward to what your brother may add. Tell a Captain from one Captain to another, hi!
Sorry for taking so long to get back with all. I've been sick. Seems as if everything that comes down the road runs into me. [N]
I am glad to see I share such good company. IT that is a good suggestion. My son is in the Fairfax County Department; chip off the 'ole block. I have contact numbers and will call them.
I am still interested, however, to hear what the Captains that have been mentioned have to say. I value their opinion and wisdom. Ain't easy being a Captain.
Hi folks!
Did any of you fellow posters with Fire Depatment relatives find out anything about the testing?
My brother says that they don't do any psychological testing for any position in their FD.
He says "We don't believe in it."
My brother says that they don't do any psychological testing for any position in their FD.
He says "We don't believe in it."
[/quote]
He may have a point. From personal experience we don't want people that are too sane. [:P]
Actually that is what I am finding out. Police perform the test regularly. Few FDs do.
The department my husband works for does not do the testing either, although I believe at one time they did. The police department does do the testing.
Cappy - I read on another post about you doing arson interogations. My husband does them as well.
My brother says that they don't do any psychological testing for any position in their FD.
He says "We don't believe in it."
[/quote]
He may have a point. From personal experience we don't want people that are too sane. [:P]
[/quote]
He spent the first half of his career being the first one to go into burning buildings. Glad someone does that for a living.
IT
You are married to very intuitive guy. Give him my best.
TXHRGUY
I was a suppression officer for just under 30 years. I am glad to hear that some have personal experiences with firefighters. When my wife calls me crazy again I can tell her that I share new company. I did not think that I would like the change to what I current do but I am having a grand time.
Tell all be safe out there!
We definitely have some interesting conversations in my house between the two of us. There are times we see things from two completely different angles.
My husband loves what he does. Sometimes the phones and pager going off in the middle of the night and the call outs can drive you nuts, but I know he enjoys what he does and that is what matters. I don't see him doing anything else.