Possibly changing to a PTO structure

GLC

Because of recent problems with our leave policies, we are considering going to a PTO structure. That would take us out of when ee can use their time. Some questions we had are the following: Any help you can give us would be appreciated.

1. We currently have annually for all FT staff, 20 days of vacation, 15 sick days (no STD), 4 emergency days for illness for spouse, parent, child, 4 bereavement days for each death, and 1 personal day. Adding all those up, obviously we could not give 44 days off annually. We could not run an operation like that. I'm sure our ee would expect us to. What is a good # of PTO days to give?

2. Would there be any liability on our part when employees leave the agency? Isn't vacation considered compensation so you must pay it out when someone leaves? Currently, we pay unused accrued vacation if someone terminates.

3. Should any PTO days roll over from one year to another. Currently, vacation must be taken by 12/31 and sick accrues up to 130 days.

4. What should we do with employees who currently have accrued sick time? We have some ee who rarely use sick so some have over 200 hours of sick leave.

5. Are there any issues with exempt staff and PTO? We currently do not dock the pay of exempt staff, but certain instances we would not pay them. We would not pay them full salary, if they are out for a full day or more and run out of vacation, sick, etc. From the way I read the regs, this is acceptable, as long as it is for a full day and we have a bona fide sick policy (541.118 of the regs).

jmcaa

>
>1. We currently have annually for all FT staff,
>20 days of vacation, 15 sick days (no STD), 4
>emergency days for illness for spouse, parent,
>child, 4 bereavement days for each death, and 1
>personal day. Adding all those up, obviously we
>could not give 44 days off annually. We could
>not run an operation like that. I'm sure our ee
>would expect us to. What is a good # of PTO days
>to give?

OUR PTO IS GIVEN OUT ACCORDING TO YEARS OF SERVICE STARTING AT 12 DAYS PER YEAR FOR 0 TO 2.99 YEARS OF SERVICE AND YOU CAN CARRYOVER A MAXIMUM OF 30 DAYS. DAYS OF LEAVE INCREASE THEREAFTER WITH A TOP 30 YEARS OF SERVICE AND UP OF 27 DAYS PER YEAR AND 54 MAX. CARRYOVER.
>
>2. Would there be any liability on our part when
>employees leave the agency? Isn't vacation
>considered compensation so you must pay it out
>when someone leaves? Currently, we pay unused
>accrued vacation if someone terminates.

CHECK YOUR STATE LAWS ON WHEN LEAVE TIME IS EARNED AND MUST BE PAID OUT. OUR PTO IS EARNED EACH MONTH WORKED AND IS PAID OUT WHEN EE LEAVES COMPANY.
>
>3. Should any PTO days roll over from one year
>to another. Currently, vacation must be taken by
>12/31 and sick accrues up to 130 days.
>
THE PROBLEM WITH PTO ROLLING OVER YEAR TO YEAR IS THAT THE EE WILL ACTUALLY EARN PTO ONE YEAR BUT COULD TAKE IT LATER WHEN THEIR PAY RATE HAS RISEN IN EFFECT GETTING A BETTER DEAL. ALSO YOU HAVE TO CARRY THE ACCRUED LEAVE ON YOUR BALANCE SHEET AS A LIABILITY. ROLLING OVER PTO CAN BECOME EXCESSIVE AND EXPENSIVE. I WOULD LIMIT THIS AMOUNT TO A SMALL NUMBER (EVEN LESS THAN WHAT WE CURRENTLY ALLOW).

>4. What should we do with employees who
>currently have accrued sick time? We have some
>ee who rarely use sick so some have over 200
>hours of sick leave.
>
IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER YOU USUALLY PAY OUT THE SICK LEAVE IF AN EMPLOYEE TERMINATES EMPLOYMENT...MAYBE YOU COULD OFFER TO CONVERT UP TO THE MAX 130 DAYS TO PTO TIME AT A ONE-TIME REDUCED RATE.

>5. Are there any issues with exempt staff and
>PTO? We currently do not dock the pay of exempt
>staff, but certain instances we would not pay
>them. We would not pay them full salary, if they
>are out for a full day or more and run out of
>vacation, sick, etc. From the way I read the
>regs, this is acceptable, as long as it is for a
>full day and we have a bona fide sick policy
>(541.118 of the regs).

DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE.

E Wart

I will be glad to send you my old company's policy that we devised. I will be glad to talk with you about some of this if you would like. Too much to try to write.

E Wart
[email]ewarthen@newcombspring.com[/email]
770-981-2803 x 27 tele
770-981=3345 fax

SW

When we converted to PTO we also added a temporary disability plan that accrues on hours worked, but is not paid out upon termination. We put 3 of the previous 12 "sick" days into the new PTO schedule and put 6 into the new TD plan, so they actually "lost" 3 sick days per year. Our PTO also includes holidays and starts at 20 days per year with a maximum of 35 days after 18 years of service. The TD can only be used for employee's personal illness or injury after 3 days off and with a medical excuse. Our PTO can only carry over up to 240 hours, but the excess rolls into the TD plan on 12/31. We do pay out PTO upon termination. You can e-mail me if you'd like a copy of our plan.

[email]Sue.whitesell@westernhome.org[/email]

cohiba1200

I have an operation in California, just part of a nation-wide organization. We have a PTO program, and we're hearing that in California, we are not able to limit the amount of unused hours that carry-over to the next year. In our other operations (outside CA) we limit the annual carryover to 40 hours.

I have searched and searched but cannot find clear guidance for this issue. I know CA labor law can be a little different (kind of like churning one's own butter is "different" than buying it at the supermarket) and I was wondering if anyone has experience with this type of thing.

E Wart

When I came to my present employer, they were paying CA ee's the time they had "accrued" when they left. Actually, our plan at that time didn't require it because the employee didn't really earn it until they were actively employed on 1/1 of each year and was a "gift from the employer". However, with most PTO plans, this would be due at termiantion since you usually "accrue/earn" each month the time.
I called and talked with someone at the State of CA Labor Dept. about their vacation. In CA, employees should be alowed to carry over vacation. However, he told me that if we had a company policy that plainly states the number of vacaiton days they are able to carry over and they know this in advance, we can limit this. (We set up a policy of maximnum of 24 hours vacation carry over ONLY in CA.)
This was straight from the horses mouth in CA. However, I don't have anything in writing.

E Wart

NaeNae55

We converted to a PTO plan in 1998. At the time, we had 6 holidays, 2 float holidays, 12 sick days and vacation ran from 1 week to 4 weeks depending upon your time with the company.

We combined the sick and vacation only. Employees were paid for old balances up to a point (can't remember what it was) and everyone started fresh. We reduced the vacation by one day for new employees, so we accrue at 128, 176, 216, and 246 hours per year (depending upon your time with the company). Employees may accrue up to a max of 1 year and 11 months (23 months) worth. For example, a long time employee can not have any more than 471.5 hours accrued on the books.

Since our state does not have any specific laws on payouts, we pay terminating employees 45% of their unused time (and that is the liability accounting carries on the books). I believe the people who originally installed this program thought it would be a fair figure so that employees wouldn't get payout for not using sick time. I can't honestly say that is how it works though.

We continue to keep holiday pay separate. Float holidays are front loaded every year and it is a use it or lose it program.

We now have 2 long time employees who are continually scrambling to get time taken so that they don't max out. We are considering a change in the plan where we would offer to let employees buy their vacation every December in full week increments. They would not get it at full pay, but at a percentage of it. We have been considering it for about 2 years, so who knows if we will ever install it or at what rate.

Our exempt employees use the same banks, but the banks are not charged for partial day absences.

Hope this info helps you. In fact, I am open to any opinions from other forumites regarding our idea of paying out PTO annually.

Nae