employee refuses to use vacation

Our policy is that employees can carry over 5 vacation days after their anniversary date, but must use them within six months or else lose them. Our Director of Finance has not--with the exception of a few days over the Christmas holidays--used any vacation days in two years, and has successfully lobbied our Executive Director to make an exception for her on this policy. As a result, she has nearly two months vacation time on the books. This means that 1) I have an employee who should get some R&R but won't; 2) if she were to leave our employment that time would, under our policies, be compensated to her; and 3) the person in charge of the finance department is never gone and while I don't question her honesty, I don't feel that is a good practice. Our annual audit is coming up and I feel I should make sure the auditors are aware of this situation. Any other suggestions out there? Because our Executive Director has allowed this to happen I feel hampered in resolving it.

Comments

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  • I think you need to get your executive director in line that this exception is a bad idea and that it is causing administrative problems (also, if another employee requests to do the same and is told "no", there could be a discrimination issue).

    I don't see how you can make her take the entire 2 months, but the company certainly could let her know that she is not allowed to bank any more days, and she is now on use it or lose it with everyone else. I would have the executive director sign a letter to her in writing to that effect. She needs to have her employees trained so that they can cover short term absenses. That should be part of her job, and if she feels that she cannot leave the office, even for a few days because she has not properly trained her staff, she is not doing her job.

    The executive director needs to understand that if this isn't stopped, this employee will continue to bank days for the duration of her employment. I have had to deal with employers who had employees who banks over a years worth of vaction, and the employer was hit for a hugh bill when several employees retired within a few months (all having over 6 months banked vacation).

    I also believe that vacation is important psychologically for employees. She could burn out by never taking any time off. If she is having trouble scheduling time off, her supervisor needs to help her do so.

    Good Luck!!
  • It certainly is a good idea to make sure the people get a little vacation. At one time our company used to mandate that one week of vacation time must be taken, in one block, the other days could be used singly or even in partial days. This rule serves 2 purposes. First, we did feel that for the good of the employee (and ultimately us), a vacation was necessary for every individual from top to bottom. Second, it was a good opportunity to see if anything "odd" occurred while the employee was gone.

    As I understand it, banks use this method all of the time for audit and control purposes. I remember hearing a story of an HR employee that never took vacations, was kind enough to fill out people's timesheets for them, and if he happed to schedule time away, came back in for just the day to process the payroll because no one else really understood the program. As you can imagine, there were other things going on there from padding paychecks (for a cut of the pay) and creation of imaginary employees.

  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-18-02 AT 10:42AM (CST)[/font][p]It is indeed bad policy to have a policy and offer one or two people these perennial exceptions to it. Aside from your suspicion, this always creates more problems than it solves. It seems to always be accounting folks (at least here) who say they can't afford to take any time off and they stack up their untaken leave at the end of the year and it creates problems for everybody. Apparently your executive agrees with this person that (s)he can't do without the finance person and therefore allows him/her to march to a different rule. Bad management practice. Be careful how you tell the auditor this, but, I'd find a discreet way to drop this information and let the auditor draw his own conclusions. Not to suggest this is occuring, but it seems that the bank teller always gets caught when he or she takes a week off.
  • I have several points I would like to make here.

    1) It's possible when the Executive Director agreed to make an exception for the Director of Finance it was because of a particular situation and has no idea how long this has gone on and how much has been accrued. I would certainly bring the problem to the director's notice, along with all the ramifications. However, if the director chooses to hide his head in the sand after that, it is his/her responsibility.

    2) I am a trained accountant who somehow got HR dumped into my lap. I have used this site quite a bit to learn about the problems and solutions facing companies and it has been very helpful, even though there is quite a lot of "accountant bashing". As an accountant, I can tell you that it is VERY important that EVERY employee in a finance department, payroll department, billing department, etc (anyone who works with company funds)take at least one week (5 consecutive business days) of vacation every year. It won't hurt to put the auditor on notice about the Director of Finance not taking a full week, but if the audit firm is anything but stupid, they should notice that themselves. Such an oversite (not taking the week)often shows up in the auditor's report. Something I am sure your Executive Director would not like see, nor would he like all the stakeholders to see it.

    3) I have seen many accountants work an average of 60 hours a week (been there myself) while the HR people left at 4:25 every day. I am sure it often works the other way too. I think it helpful to remember that the hours "necessary" to complete a job depend upon the actual expectations of the job itself, the organization's culture, the supervisor's attitude, and the competance of the employee. (I had a CFO once who claimed that we must set the example on cost cutting so all exempt employees in the department worked like dogs for small pay, on old equipment, and using the supplies the other departments didn't want.)This is true whether you work in accounting, HR, or maintenance. Lighten up on us accountants guys!
  • Good for you!! There are a couple of accountants at my place who would consider looking at this site a waste of time. I think that it is those accountants who are getting bashed, not you.
  • Whoa! We HR people work with Finance and Accounting personnel day in, day out. But they are accoustomed to black and white i.e. 2 + 2 = 4 ALWAYS. HR people wear a dozen different hats on a single day and our challenges are usually in the gray area. If there is accountant bashing, it's probably because the accountants think we have cushy jobs and they work for a living. The HR that left at 4:25 probably was going to lunch. x:o
  • Lunch? What's lunch? Most HR people I know can't make it out of the office for anything. I was an accounting manager for many years in the banking industry, but I have been in Human Resources now for 7 years. It is my experience that a lot of accountants can't and won't think out of the box and are unable to be flexible (the nature of their job). This is not all accountants, as I would not be where I am today, if I was included. The bashing never bothered me and I can honestly say that my strong accounting background has been a definite asset in the Human Resources Profession.
  • Hey, Hot Topic! x:D

    I have worked in the accounting and the HR departments. Each one has its own needs, standards and purpose. You can not expect them to work the same. For accounting, 2+2 should always equal 4, most matters do fall into the black and white category. However, in HR you find that 2 is not always 2, perhaps a shade over or under, and that each seemingly similar situation has its own circumstances that need to be judged on itw own merits. I don't see this as accountants beinf stiff and inflexible, but that the materials that they work with are more standard and unbending. HR has the difficuly in applying policies and laws fairly and equally when situations are not always the same.

    Each profession works hard (as a whole) but certainly there will be individuals who do not. I think that by the fact that we are all here reading and posting is a sign that we care about what we do, care that we do it right, and plainly just work hard.

  • I think there has to be a balance in every organization and a mixture of individuals that compliment each other. I know that I am often at work by 7AM, many times don't take lunch and might not leave until 5 or 6PM. But...my CEO, my COO and my CFO are usually here the same time or shortly after.

    Personally I would not have the CFO's job nor would he have my job..they really are poles apart, but we respect each other for what we and our positions bring to the table.

    I have worked in organizations where the almight dollar is the only thing that matters and it is a very unhappy place to work. I have also worked where employees rule the day and run rampant over everyone and spend money like drunken sailors - this too is not the ideal.

    Everyone deserves respect for the job they do!

    Let's play nice!
  • Now NaeNae! All accountant bashing is in good fun. Next to my office is the Controller and right across the hall is the Cost Accountant who 'juggles' for the owner. We poke fun at each other frequently when we get that rare chance to get our heads above the water. It keeps us sane. In fact, one of our favorite pastimes is passing around the day's Dilbert cartoons and seeing ourselves clearly in them. If I can find a Dilbert cartoon that resembles one of these guys, I jump at the chance and pin it on the wall. And you can bet they return the 'favor'. We laugh hard, play hard, work hard and respect each other's talents and professions. But, we certainly will poke each other with a sharp, tongue-in-cheek, good-fun 'insult' whenever we get the chance. Come to think of it, our corner of the building seems to be the friendliest and the one with an occasional burst of laughter. We're also here well before eight and well after five. I love both of these pointy-headed guys!!
  • Whoever has the final say has the final say. However, the law states that vacation pay is never a use it or lose it. It is always paid. The Director needs to know what the law says.
  • What law says THAT? There is no federal law entitling private sector employees to vacation. I'm sure there are a variety of state laws though. I wonder if there is a state that requires employers to allow employees to bank untaken vacation and pay it out at termination? In MS, the use it or lose it policy is fairly prevalent and not prohibited.
  • Hi Don D, isn't there something (somewhere) that says that if the time is "earned" or considered a "cash equivalent" benefit, then you must pay it out? I don't really remember much on this, but I feel like I have heard something like that. We have never had the problem of people NOT taking their time and we pay out accrued time upon termination so we have not been challenged on this. It would be good to know.
  • You are correct. There is no federal law that mandates that you pay out accrued time, but some states deem this an earned benefit and it must be paid out under state law. In South Carolina, if you have a written policy stating that an employee must give ___ weeks of notice or forfeit their PTO, then it is legal to do so. I am not certain how long they will be able to do this, as many folks to consider this time that has been earned and they do feel it should be paid to them regardless of the length of the notice given. I am sure it will be a matter of time before a court settles this in the employee's favor. I have only worked for one organization with a use it or lose it type regulation and this company had offices that spanned many states. I don't know how they did it, unless it was because their corporate office was in a less employee focused state.
  • Some of our ee's are unionized. Our contract states that if the ee is discharged for cause or quits without giving a week's notice, they forgeit their vacation payout. Don't know how long this'll hold up either, but, these contracts are reviewed at regional and national levels and so far it hasn't been challenged.
  • I would definetely recommend that you speak with your auditors. After a very large embezzlement from a long term, trusted employee, one of the management controls that our auditors recommended was that everyone on the accounting staff was to take at least 5 consecutive days off per year. The lady who embezzled rarely took more than 1 or 2 days off at a time, often "dropping in" on her scheduled day off, in the evenings if she knew others were working late, or on the weekend. Needless to say we were all shocked when she quit without notice and we subsequently uncovered the problem. Hind sight being what it is, we may have found out years earlier about this problem had she been away from the office for a period of time and someone had taken a look at her desk. The result was turmoil in our organization, time and expense of a lengthy investigation, and loss of trust by our members. Tell the person to go on vacation. We all need a break.
  • This is a BIG BIG tipoff, especially in the financial world when you have an employee who never takes a vacation, is very secretive about what they are doing and they "drop by" on days off. If there is someone with a lot of fiscal responsibility, then it is more or less mandatory that a vacation is taken. It used to be that a two week vacation was mandated, but in this age of super technology, a "crime" can often be detected a lot sooner than that.
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