Walmart Black Friday death

NaeNae55

I just read a scathing blog which claimed Walmart should be held criminally responsible in the tragic trampling death of their temporary employee on Black Friday. The blogger said Walmart built up a shopping frenzy and so should have known that employees or shoppers would then be at risk. The blogger claimed that investigators didn't need to look at the tape to know where to place the blame, as it clearly belonged at Walmart's greedy door.

Comments?

Irie

I can understand the blogger's comments since we all know these stores build up to such a frenzy for Black Friday. I'm sure not only could WalMart be sued but the manufacturer of the door, the glass, etc. because that is what broke leading to the trampling of the worker.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds if the family does decide to sue.

NaeNae55

I am amazed at how few are weighing in on this. It seems obvious to me that if we go after Walmart for creating a shopping 'frenzy' then we need to go after many other retailers too. I am interested to see if the video will show the door didn't work properly or if the employee wasn't properly trained for this event. I suspect it is the latter. It is also possible the employee couldn't get the lock undone due to pressure from the people outside. That is something that should have been considered prior to any training or scheduled events, but getting people worked up via sales ads? I don't think so.

To me, the really greedy ones here were the shoppers who were upset they had to leave after waiting so long to get in. They didn't feel trampling an employee was bad enough to close the store and kick them out without their puchases.

I am not rooting for Walmart here. They get a lot of deservedly bad press, and it is likely they are at fault for the way the door was opened and the poor employee was killed. If there was enough neglect, then criminal charges should apply (and not just a fine.) However, creating a shopping frenzy is not enough to warrent criminal charges. If that were the case, we would have to create a whole new state full of prisons to accomodate our sales and marketing people.

One thing the blogger said that WAS upsetting was the claim that work comp would only pay $6,000 to bury the employee. If you are from NY, is that true? Doesn't your state pay more out for a death than $6,000?

Either way, I am sure the employee's family is already being pursued by lawyers eager to um...help them get justice. I seriously doubt if $6,000 is all they end up with. Even so, I am sure they would prefer to have their family member alive and well.

Just my 2 cents.

Tony Kessler

In his blog at [url]www.employmentlawpost.com[/url], Tennessee Employment Law Letter editor John Phillips just weighed in on this subject. tk

[url]http://employmentlawpost.com/theword/2008/12/02/walmart-tragedy-but-what-about-liability/[/url]

davids

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-02-08 AT 10:42AM (CST)[/font][br][br]I have a different take on this. I don't see how advertising a sale is creating a frenzy. The responsible parties are the shoppers who didn't have the decency to help the fallen worker. It is possible that the doors malfunctioned or that the employees could have been trained better, but it still comes down to the shoppers not pushing others to get in the store.

Walmart makes an easy target as it has engaged in conduct that should make any HR professional cringe; but in this case, the majority of the blame is on the shoppers.

KSR6450

David,
As always, your post is very enlightening and I agree with your assessment. Just because a store has a sale should not make them liable for the behavior of their customers. People have become too 'it's all about me' - or maybe I have just become too cynical.

cnghr

To me, the idea of blaming the store is just another example of how our society finds ways to avoid or help others avoid personal responsibility. Just because a retailer (Wal-Mart or any of the thousands of others who have huge sales on "Black Friday") has a big sale does not mean that people should behave like savages. Why should normal human decency go right out the window in the face of a bargain?

NaeNae55

It looks like HR people in general agree with me regarding the tragedy at Walmart last week. If you are interested in reading the scathing blog for yourself, you can find it at:

[url]http://www.disabledworkerlaw.com/[/url]

The blog was posted on November 29th by Troy Rosasco.

cnghr

I love the way he used the analogy of "blood in shark infested waters". Last I heard, the mere fact that we are human should put us at least a notch or two above a fish in terms of behavior. We can and should control our actions and no sale should be able to reduce us to the level of unthinking animals without regard for the possible consequences of our actions.

joannie

I agree with you, cnghr, but our socialist leaning government may have changed that. The government wants to provide housing, food and medical care. Is that not much the same as keeping animals in cages, feeding them and having the vet look after them? Those who are treated as animals act as animals.

KSR6450

Nice analogy. th-up
When everything is given to you it tends to strip away your sense of accountability, you are no longer responsible for taking care of yourself.

KSR6450

Victim's kin sue in Wal-Mart stampede death

The lawsuit against Wal-Mart and the Long Island mall where it is located was filed Wednesday in state Supreme Court in the Bronx on behalf of Elsie Damour Phillipe.

The family also filed notice that Nassau County, on Long Island, and its police department will be sued.

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28034543[/url]

NaeNae55

Now they are saying it was people cutting in line which caused the death. People waited in the cold, but some waited in their warm cars. Then when the people in their cars tried to get in there was a stampede to get in first. So sad.

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,461704,00.html[/url]

NaeNae55

Update:

OSHA has fined Walmart the max fine:
[url]http://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/articles/19525/1/OSHA-cites-Wal-Mart-for-Black-Friday-death/Page1.html#[/url]

Paul in Cannon Beach

Stores actually use the phrase "doorbuster" for their heavily discounted sales. It has a grim connotation now. The article says Walmart did not properly train its employees to handle the situation. I think that is a reasonable charge. If you create hype and urgency for a "big sale" you need to be prepared for large crowds and potential problems.

ACU Frank

According to the article, the maximum fine in this case was $7,000? Can that be right?

Tony Kessler

Yes, the fine was only $7,000. But the [I]Huffington Post[/I] is reporting that in early May, Wal-Mart struck a deal with the District Attorney to drop her criminal investigation, which would have subjected the company to a $10,000 fine if convicted. In return, the company agreed to:
-- improve safety at its New York state stores, including crowd-management plans for post-Thanksgiving day sales;
-- create a $400,000 victims' compensation and remuneration fund; and
-- give $1.5 million to Nassau County, NY, social services programs and nonprofit groups.
[I]The Post[/I] says the victim's family wasn't all that happy about the settlement, but the DA called this money-for-absolution agreement "historic." tk

ACU Frank

Did you ever think you'd see the day when The Huffington Post would become a more credible source than The Washington Post?

Tony Kessler

Could be that the Huffington Post has done a better job of getting its blog entries to show up first on a "Wal-Mart fined $7,000" Google search. tk

Paul in Cannon Beach

I had heard somewhere that part of the settlement was to have the Walmart store actually clean its bathrooms regularly but Walmart lawyers claimed that was unreasonable.

Sorry, had to get that in. Personal issue I have with the chain.

NaeNae55

[QUOTE=Paul in Cannon Beach;716792]I had heard somewhere that part of the settlement was to have the Walmart store actually clean its bathrooms regularly but Walmart lawyers claimed that was unreasonable.

Sorry, had to get that in. Personal issue I have with the chain.[/QUOTE]

Maybe it is just your part of the country. I get frustrated because they are ALWAYS in there cleaning, and half the time you can't go in because the one cleaning is a guy.

Paul in Cannon Beach

Next time that happens tell the guy that there is a Walmart in Chehalis Washington where his services are needed and will be appreciated.

cnghr

[QUOTE=NaeNae55;716799]Maybe it is just your part of the country. I get frustrated because they are ALWAYS in there cleaning, and half the time you can't go in because the one cleaning is a guy.[/QUOTE]

That same thing has happened to me more than once at our Wal-Mart here. I'm glad they keep the bathrooms clean (or anyhow the womens' bathroom, I can't vouch for the mens') but it is frustrating when they close it down to clean and you need to get in there or, as has happened to me a couple of times, have a small granddaughter with you who isn't going to be able to "hold it"!