Panic Attacks

Prairie

One of our employees has had panic attacks recently and has requested FMLA intermittant leave. Are panic attacks considered a serious illness?

owenlady

Depends on what the doctor says. If the employee is having ongoing treatment, you are probably looking at intermittent leave.

ritaanz

Are you aware what brings on these panic attacks? Is it when the boss walks into her office or when she has to complete an assignment?

Prairie

I believe they may be brought on by changes in hormone levels, but I'm not the Doctor. There are times when she can't leave her house to come to work.

ritaanz

There are times I feel like that too. But I call them lazy a** syndrome.

Seriously, without a doctors certification you must treat this according to your attendance policy. Give her the paperwork, the deadline and go from there.

Prairie

We don't have an attendance policy (no one else thinks we need one). But, we do have the Doctor's Cert. It states she has anxiety with panic attacks and is unable to leave her home. It lasted for one week, but the cert. said she may have exacerbation again and that it is a permanent condition. Additional treatments are follow up appts. every 2-3 months. She is unable to perform work of any kind when she is having panic attacks. I just wondered if this qualified as a serious medical condition.

NaeNae55

A psychological condition qualifies as a serious medical condition, and you have a doctor's certification. Treat it as FMLA.

Intermittant FMLA is tough, especially when you have no say in when time off is needed (like migraines). Remember though that you can re-certify her periodically. Just don't re-certify her more often than you would any other employee.

This is proof that you need an attendance policy. Get one in place. It will help management when all employees know the rules, it will help employees because they know where they stand, it will help supervisors know how to act when they have a problem, and most of all, it may save your company big time should another situation like this arise and you end up getting sued. Without a written attendance policy you might just as well write out the check the moment the employee screams discrimination.

Good luck!

Nae

Prairie

Thanks for your input. I agree that we need an attendance policy, and have said so many times, but have been ignored. It's frustrating, and maybe it will take a screaming employee to change the powers-that-be minds.

Lisa In Iowa

Prairie,

I feel for you; I think we all have those situations where we point things out that would help things improve only to be completely ignored until a situation finally occurs. Every once in a while you get to say "I told you so!" Keep the faith!

allsteaks

Consider implementing it in reverse. Put together a policy that you believe is fair and can be followed consistently. Take it directly to the senior authority (i.e., President, GM) and tell them you can implement this policy effective Monday, 8-20-07, allowing all employees to be properly notified. Even date it effective 8-20-07. You have now shown the how and why; let them try to find a why not. Make sense?

ritaanz

Good advice. But it depends on the mentality of upper management. Mine would take the policy, thank me profusely and deposit it in the "black hole".

If it is not their idea, it just will not fly.

joannie

Allsteaks' suggestion is a good one. I have tried it previously on several items, and have yet to have a new policy rejected.

dls

Follow Allsteaks suggestion and keep a copy of the proposed policy and the date you provided it to management. When the company gets sued, management's memory becomes hazy, and you become the scapegoat, you will have documentation.

Paul in Cannon Beach

Out of curiosity, what if you determined that the panic attacks were not FMLA? What would you do then?

After 35 years of an otherwise normal health, I began developing panic attacks a couple years ago. The triggers were often work related and they required me to sometimes leave a situation to compose myself.

The very first one happened while I was leading a workshop at a trade conference. I lost my train of thought and my impulse was to run from the room. I was able to muddle my way through the remainder of the session but I was deeply unsettled by the experience.

Over time, the attacks worsened and began to happen more frequently.

I have over time developed strategies to deal with them and 99 percent of my employees probably don't even know I deal with this.

When they started, I personally felt very emberassed. Fortunately, my boss was extremely understanding and has always accommodated any request I have made. Had he not, it would have greatly added to my frustration.

I would encourage you to do what you can to support this employee during a difficult and often agonizing time. Hopefully, these panic attacks will pass and you will have a very grateful, very loyal employee.

Prairie

Thanks to everyone for the great ideas! We are a local government and our "powers-that-be" happen to be an elected board. They don't work here. Each has his/her own ideas about policies which is why it is sometimes difficult to get things done that should be done. Coming up with a policy is a great idea - one I have tried in the past. But then I meet the resistance of the administrator (my direct boss) and get the "why did you do that", or "we've never needed that, and we don't need that now" attitude, putting me on the defensive. Sometimes I feel I am working in the dark ages here, but I plug along and try to do the right thing by everyone.

Paul, I completely understand panic attacks and applaud you for being so pro-active in handling your situation. My husband suffered from them for years. And, they would happen days after his "trigger", making it difficult to figure out what was causing them. He tried counseling, drugs, anything that he thought would help. As it turned out, it was time that provided the help he needed. He has been free of panic attacks for a while now, but we don't ever think that it can't happen again.

My original thought was that yes, this would be covered by FMLA due to the disabling nature of this illness, but I just wanted to check with you who deal with this more on a day-to-day basis. Having only 73 employees, I don't run into FMLA problems/questions very often.

Again, thank you all for your input and help.

HRQ

Hey Paul - I have nothing useful to add to the original post, but I wanted to thank you for being open about your personal experience.

Until a few years ago, I truly believed panic attacks were at the least, a bunch of hooey, and at worst, an inconvenience for the person suffering the attacks. I just didn't know any better.

Over the past couple of years, a few people I'm very close with have dealt with their own attacks.

Often, I had no idea an attack had occurred. Eventually I figured out how they coped and I would recognize it when it was happening, but the general public would never notice.

In each case, the person felt embarrassment at knowing there was something "wrong" with them, thinking they were crazy, and went through a lot of frustration trying to figure out why the heck this was happening. There is no "forumula" for figuring it out.

I still don't pretend to understand what a panic attack is like, or how bad it can be, but I do believe it is real.

ritaanz

I am not questioning panic attacks. To the people that suffer from them, they are real.

My sister-in-law suffered from panic attacks when she had to drive to work on the freeways. Her doctor gave her medication and eventually put her out on disability. She works for a very large company here in Phoenix.

Then the FMLA letter arrived advising her that unless she returned to work, she would be replaced. She shrugged and put the letter away. Shortly came another letter, this time certified mail. It had her termination date. The husband saw that letter. That night he was in the garage. She went looking for him and found him making a for sale sign. When asked, he told her they could not afford the house if she lost her job.

She went to work the next day, and has been working and driving ever since. I guess the fear of losing her home overcame the attacks in traffic .

Paul in Cannon Beach

I imagine "panic attacks" is a very broad term that describes a variety of disorders.

For me personally, I was one of those "its all in your mind" people until I dealt with it myself. That said, my panic attacks ARE all in my mind. I have seen a couple different doctors and approached the problem from several different angles.

My ultimate conclusion is that yes, its all in my mind. That said, our minds are powerful things and they can control our physiological responses.

My panic attacks are very real when they are happening. Saying "just snap out of it" doesn't make it stop. This is the frustrating part. Why can't I deal with this? Why am I experiencing anxiety in situations that never used to bother me?

My only response is you have to learn to cope. I have my strategies and they work most of the time. The other day I made it through a situation with a minimum of anxiety and without needing to resort to my backup strategies. I felt a real sense of accomplishment. Maybe I am getting better. Maybe one day I will be back to normal (or as normal as I can be anyways).

I think you have to fight it. Outsmart it. But my original point was you need the patience and support of the people around you. Its crucial to maintaining confidence and a positive outlook.

This has made me a great deal more understanding of others that suffer similar challenges.

HRinGA

We have an employee who is out for the very same reason. However, here is my dilemma: The cert ppwk came back stating he could work. EE says he can't. We called and informed him his doctor said he could work. Mind you, he's been out for 2 weeks. (just now got the ppwk back). So what should we do for the past two weeks he's missed? Now, we get updated papers that state he cannot perform any work during "time of episode" and that "monthly absences are possible."
Well, how long is an episode? I've got to get a handle on this but am at a loss as what to do.
Any advise?