FMLA request for "complicated grief reaction"

System

Here's a first.... An ee's father died a week ago and she has used her 3 days bereavement plus 2 days of PTO for the first week she missed. She has now asked for FML based on a primary care physician's note stating that she is suffering from a complicated grief syndrome. The doctor is recommending she be out for an additional 4 weeks due to this condition. Would anyone approve leave based on this diagnosis? I feel badly that she's lost her father and taking this so hard but I also know she has a vacation scheduled this month that she no longer has the accrued time for. Any suggestions? I've considered requesting a 2nd opinion but by that time she'll be back.

LindaS

As long as the physician's certification allows this condition to fall under the FMLA (which it probably will) you have to allow the time off.

watrsflo

The FMLA regs define a "serious health condition" in a number of ways; one of which includes "Continuing treatment" by a health care provider which includes any one or more of the following: a period of incapacity (i.e. inability to work); treatment two or more times by a health care provider; treatment by a health care provider on at least one occasion which results in a regimien of continuing treatment....

It seems conceivable to me that someone diagnosed with a "complicated grief syndrome" might meet one or more of these criteria.

Whatever

I'm not too sure. Sympathy shouldn't play a part in the decision. FMLA doesn't require a diagnosis. However, is "complicated grief syndrome" a legitimatly recognized medical term? Will she require further treatment to get over her grief by psychological professional? I think you need a lot more information before you can make a determination.

sonny

It is, but don't get me going. I think you will need to grant it.

Don D

Sonny is right. It ain't up to HR people to joust with the medical practitioner when it comes to him deciding the woman has a medical condition that requires time off from work. We have no business trying to decipher and implement the psychiatric diagnostic literature by asking if 'grief' is a legitimate illness. On the other hand, challenge it deny it, aggravate the existing situation, send her into a tailspin of despair and depression and let's contemplate the more serious issues we'll have after all that. Not only will you have an FMLA charge but you'll likely be dealing with an ADA protection issue.

Margaret Morford

I'd get a second opinion. Don't you have a company doctor you can get her in to see immediately? If not, find a doctor and tell him/her that you want to give them all your second opinion business, that the company will pay them directly, no insurance hassles, but you want to make sure that the employee is seen immediately as time is of the essence when you send your employees.

The doctor should jump at the opportunity for a new no hassle revenue stream!

Margaret Morford
theHRedge
615-371-8200
[email]mmorford@mleesmith.com[/email]
[url]http://www.thehredge.net[/url]

Don D

Understanding Margaret's urge to jump in and offer a divergent opinion, I simply cannot believe that she is suggesting this line of action in a case where someone has lost a parent and has been diagnosed as seriously grieving and needing a couple of days off. Look at the downside of sending this employee to a second opinion giver. What's the payback.....It's going to be largely negative!

And I've read somewhere that your second and third opinion people cannot be under contract to you or regularly utilized as your company's choice of clinics, unless I have that wrong.

Margaret Morford

Don D,

I would agree with you if that was the fact situation. The employee doesn't just want a couple of extra days off. She's had a week off and now wants four more and who knows if the doctor will release her then. I think to ask for more than a month off without looking into it further opens the door to lots of potential abuse. The second opinion may give the employer a comfort level with the need for such a long leave and it just may be poor wording on the paperwork from the first doctor.

Margaret Morford
theHRedge
615-371-8200
[email]mmorford@mleesmith.com[/email]
[url]http://www.thehredge.net[/url]

LindaS

I don't think sending her for a 2nd opinion is a good idea. You are dealing with a person who is very likely in a fragile emotional state and is, presumably, seeking treatment to deal with the problem. In all likelihood she is being given prescribed medication to help her with this issue as well as seeking some type of counseling. The four weeks off does not seem, to me anyway, to be extreme especially if she is on medication as it takes some time to regulate the dosage.

Shadowfax

You could choose and pay for the Dr and the 2nd opinion, but I don't think you can use a 2nd opinion from the co Dr. In fact, you can't use the opinion of a Dr w/whom yuou regularly contract or regularly use services.

cthr

We had an employee whose husband was killed by a drunk driver doing 90mph in the wrong lane. She used all her bereavement and vacation and was willing to take time unpaid. We knew that she was being treated by a physician because of her difficulty in coping with the situation. I spoke with her on the phone, sent her the paperwork for FMLA and STD. We had no problem with her taking the leave, STD required periodic updates from her doctor. She eventually decided to retire. That was over a year ago and she is still collecting LTD.

I don't think that 4 weeks is a long time if she was especially close to her parent. I wouldn't seek a second opinion. If she is eligible for STD send her the paperwork and make sure it gets in to the carrier. They will get the necessary documentation from her doctor.

mamhradm

If a primary care physician gave his opinion, I'd go with it. Four weeks is not that long in the overall scheme.

We had an employee who's father passed away (very close to) and did not take a long enough time off to grieve. Her direct report was ready to write her up and terminate her for performance issues: moody, not concentrating on work, not as cheerful as usual, etc. That would have been much worse from an HR standpoint to deal with than allowing an extra little time off to cope!

skyrocket

My understanding of second and third opinions is as follows:

A health care provider employed by the employer on a regular basis CANNOT issue the second opinion. If the first and second medical opinions differ, the employer has the right to require a third opinion (at the employer's expense) that would be final and binding. This third opinion can only be issued by a health care provider that is mutually agreed upon by the employee and employer.

Note: If the second opinion is accepted by the employer and the employer declines to authorize an FMLA leave, the employee does not have the right to request a third opinion and the employer is not obligated by the law to obtain a third opinion. However, there are risks involved in accepting a second or third opinion where it conflicts with employee’s own treating doctor’s initial certificate.

If you obtain a second opinion for what is basically a psychological issue, you will probably only get a new diagnosis of depression or something more tangible. You would end up granting the leave anyway, in my opinion.

Galestorm

Another little note regarding complicated grief reaction! An employee can go to Hawaii and lie on the beach to get over her emotional set-back if she so chooses. We've had employees take additional time off and then have the coworkers worry about where they spent the time getting over their grief. I've even had one employee who was on FMLA go on a cruise while off. I don't ask them where they spend their time, but coworkers of the employee on leave always seem to know! However, if the doctor's note is in order, and the employee has met the requirements for FMLA,there are no specifics stating where an employee must convalesce. Sometimes getting away from it all is just what the doctor ordered!