Need to Vent

LindaS

I have an EE who is in a management position and I feel like my hands are tied when dealing with any problems with her. She is our QA Manager and I am having multiple problems with her....

1) She dresses completely inappropriately in that she wears skin tight, low cut jeans with high spiked shoes everyday as well as skin tight tops. I have tried to address this issue with her but have gotten almost nowhere - I have gotten her tops to not show cleavage but her pants are so low cut that when she bends over you see the color of her thong that day. I have forced her to order safety shoes due to the amount of time she spends in the plant but she does not wear them.

2) She does not handle stress well and I have had several instances of her getting into shouting matches on the plant floor - at least one with another member of management!! When she does this she does not care who is around or what is said - just that she is angry.

3) Her work performance - this is the worst thing. She spends soooo much time smoking with our Mfg. Director and Sales and Marketing Director that she gets nothing done some days. I have had people tell me that they spend literally hours in the breakroom smoking and talking - who knows about what!!! She then complains that she does not have enough time to get her job done and starts crying about her stress level.

While all these may seem like things that should be able to be addressed - I cannot do anything. The Mfg. Director and Sales and Marketing Director are sons of the company president and therefore will not be going anywhere. They follow this woman around like a puppy dog fighting over a bone - if one is not with her the other one is. The Sales & Marketing Director, if you say something to him about this issue, will back off for a few days, neither can stay away from her and as a result, she can do no wrong.

This is obviously causing a considerable amount of frustration on the production floor and has caused alot of morale and trust issues amount management personnel.

Any ideas about what can be done?

FunHRBanker

Those are MAJOR issues and I don't envy your position! Can you have a supervisors/management meeting that includes the supervisors she is insubordinate to, the owner, and the sons who seem obsessed with her? Perhaps if the two sons (and their parent who owns the company) see that her behavior is affecting everyone, they would be more likely to side with you and the other employees.

Her behavior sounds like a spoiled child. Regarding the safety shoes: don't you have a discipline policy in place that addresses this? That could be the "easiest" route to tackle with her. Repeated violations would lead to termination. You're looking out for her safety!

ray a

Sounds like she knows exactly what she wants and how to get it. She's in control. If her boss doesn't see a problem or is unwilling to address it, then your hands are pretty much tied. Not what you wanted to hear, but realistic.

ritaanz

Linda, I have to agree with Ray. If her supervisor sees nothing wrong, then there is nothing wrong. For all you know, they may be wondering why the HR grouch is making a big deal over shoes.

Her work apparel and her smoking habit has to be addressed from a higher authority. The boys need direction from papa but I do not see that happening either.

NaeNae55

Are you good at telling stories? Sometimes a good old fashioned story with a moral to it is enough. You have to have a good and interesting one, preferably funny, and one that isn't too obvious. The boys will put the facts together themselves. I would tell it to the boys, and not the boss. Take them to lunch and make it as relaxed and informal as possible. When they least expect it, tell your funny story. It should be about a young man with a lot of influence who watched his life go down the drain because he was busy checking out the merchandise instead of keeping his eye on the ball. Make it sound like the woman flaunting her wares to keep them in line was laughing at them behind their backs while she was manipulating them. If these men are so immature as to let her appearance drive them into poor behaviors, then just thinking about her secretly laughing at them will get them thinking. Especially if the story shows everyone else watching and snickering too. Respect is important if they want to be taken seriously later on down the road.

Even better would be to find something like it on youtube (if there is one). Having them see people laughing at them would make them stop and think.

If it is obvious they know why you are telling them the story, finish it with asking them if they think it would be a good story to tell daddy. Ask if they think he would enjoy it.

Telling a good story can relay facts without accusations. That often makes unpleasant facts easier to face and to recognize. You can't argue either, because no one has accused you of anything. The point is that they will see how others are percieving the situation, which is probably something they have been closing their eyes to.

Good luck!

Nae

ritaanz

I don't know Nae. We have no idea how old these guys are. They probably are not married and the boys (how did Jimmy Carter say it?) with lust in their hearts could care less what others think. After all they are the bosses sons. Their thinking might be, who would dare make fun of them and put their job in jeopardy.

If the Quality Manager's boss does not object to the hours spent playing cutsie with the boy toys, or swaying across the production floor on stiletto heels how much leverage do you think Linda has?

stilldazed

How long has this been going on? I think she'll move on, after getting bored with the situation somehow. As far as the boys are concerned, she's just flavor of the month for them, and they'll gladly redirect their attention elsewhere after she's gone. The challenge for you is to keep your patience until she's gone and hopefully keep your employer out of a bad situation. It takes a lot of energy, but I would keep putting on the pressure and making things uncomfortable but staying within the scope of your job.

best wishes

LindaS

Thanks for all your responses but I agree that there is not much I can do.

Numerous people, including an outside training consultant who has worked with our organization for several years and has a very close relationship with our president, have gone to the president regarding this issue to complain. The problem with going to the president has several variables, 1) he does not like confrontation and does as much as he can to avoid it, 2) The Mfg. Director (his son and the worse of the two) knows exactly what to tell daddy to appease him and changes tactics accordingly (for example, the last time he was talked to about this it was because the two of them were spending too much time in the front office smoking breakroom - now they sit in the factory breakroom for hours on end), 3) the president trusts people waaaayy too much.

In addition, BOTH sons are married and have children (not that that necessarily means anything) and no, they do not care now others perceive their behavior. They are the butt of many jokes around the plant but do not care.

Finally, our QA Manager is SUPPOSED TO report to the president but it is more like she "reports" to the Mfg. Director (more like whines and cries, actually).

Thanks for letting me vent!!

It's really frustrating for me, as a female, to watch another woman do this - she has ZERO respect from anyone in the company (other than the two sons), she uses her body to get what she wants, without regard for anyone else, and by all appearances she does not even have respect for herself.

Paul in Cannon Beach

My advice is to start by carefully documenting what you are seeing. Try to avoid any language that would make it appear that you have an axe to grind. Ex. "She was wearing a slutty mini dress and her blouse (what there was of it) left little to the imagination."

Remain objective. You cant afford to come across as catty or even jealous. I know you aren't but you need to remember you are dealing with a master of manipulation here. Watch your back.

Also, I would stop saying "there is nothing I can do". You are giving away your power. Repeat after me "I am an HR Hero". Yes, you are at a disadvantage right now with the politics of your environment but truth and time are on your side. If you are careful and document what you are seeing, you may eventually have the opportunity to see Miss Behaving pack her desk and shake it on out the door.

People like her get over confident and make mistakes. It very well may be the wife of one of these playboys who gets her canned. Just be patient and vent your frustration through really careful documentation.

AJ SPHR

Paul, really? "I am an HR Hero"?

Sorry, but I do disagree with you that she is wrong to say there is nothing she can do to change the situation. When management has no desire or inclination to deal with a problem manager, you cannot force the issue. The only thing the HR person does have power over is what choices she makes regarding her career. I would suggest she may want to leave this employer because if the way the two sons behave in this situation is any indication of how their dad runs the company (or how they as future presidents will run the company) then it's not an employer to stake your future on.

I don't get the whole "document, document, document" advice in this situation. How is that ever going to help? What it will show is that you, as HR leader, had knowledge of situations that you did nothing about. And if anything ever went to court, you still are the representive of the company and having evidence favorable to the plaintiff's side is not good to have hanging around, unless you really want to sabotage your future career.

I have learned in my many years of work experience that there are some situations you have no power to change. And I've stopped believing in the "some day he/she will get theirs!" philosophy to keep me going. Instead, I do the best job I can do day in and day out and if I dislike the culture and work environment, then I make plans to change it by moving to another employer or another job/location within the same employer.

Sometimes you just need to let go and stop hoping you can fix every situation.

Paul in Cannon Beach

AJ, there is little she can do when management is not responsive. That is clear. But not nothing. By documenting what she sees, she will have a record of what has been going on. Its possible a time may come when that documentation could be helpful. At the very least, it gives her a way to do something and not feel totally powerless.

I disagree with your statement that "the only thing an HR person does have power over is what choices she makes regarding her career." You are basically saying, when you run into a problem environment, just find another job. My experience is that most worklplaces are problematic environments. You just cant keep running from challenging situations.

Sometimes creating change can take time, even years. Right now, management is unresponsive. But it may not always be that way. A window of opportunity may come to remove this manager and my advice is be ready and avoid making mistakes that make it appear you have a vendetta. Be objective and professional.

Not everyone has the option to just change jobs or departments when they have a difficult situation. Yes, you cant fix every situation but I think taking a position of powerlessness is always a mistake. Always.

AJ SPHR

Paul, of course I'm not saying that everytime you face troubles or a problem environment that you just pick up your kit and run away. What the original poster described in this scenario is a management team and style that seemed pervasive, and when you talk about family members being the most dysfunctional, you have to start to realize that you have very little influence to make significant changes or significant impact. Of course you try to do what you can, and of course you keep trying even when you fail for the first, second or third time. What I'm saying is that there does come a time when you have to say "enough!" and not feel bad that you couldn't fix the environment. And that's not a position of powerlessness. That's a position of power and control. After all, the definition of insanity is ....

Paul in Cannon Beach

You are right. There comes a time when you need to stop banging your head on the wall and start looking for a workplace that is less exasperating. I didnt get the sense the poster wanted to leave yet though.

Personally, I think this situation sound explosive enough that it will eventually take care of itself. A non-performing manager who is extremely flirty with the married sons of the president? That's a powder keg. Good documentation could be a source of protection for the HR manager. I would include in that documentation the failed attempts to address the situation with managment.

I am dealing with a supervisor that throws his hands up in the air when problems arise. So maybe I am sensitive to the powerless/cop out issue. Career wise, I dont think its wise to ever appear powerless, even if in reality you may have almost no ability to improve a situation.

AJ SPHR

I agree. While the poster didn't indicate she was ready to leave, I have heard enough horror stories about family-owned businesses with dysfunctional family members serving in key operational roles to recognize that this situation will not end well.

I have questions, though, about what documentation will do in the long run to protect anyone. In theory it sounds good, like it could be valuable to show someone somewhere down the road that you knew about things but disagreed with them. And that your disagreements fell on deaf ears. But ultimately, does it really protect you against anything? Is there personal liability risk in this situation? Or could it create more of an issue by actually having official documentation of all the misdeeds.

I really don't know the answers to those questions. It does seem we always want to promote "document everything" as the end all, be all and I wonder how that plays out in the end.

Paul in Cannon Beach

My thought on the documentation is:

1. It generally never hurts to have a record of what you have observed.
2. If the HR person starts feeling she is being pushed out, the documentation could be useful if you need to play hardball.
3. If the relationship with the woman manager and sons detioriates (and I fully expect it will), the president of the company may appreciate the documentation trail to facilitate a termination.
4. Its just a small way to feel like you are doing "something" during a very frustrating situation.

davids

I agree with Paul that appropriate documentation (and I emphasize the word "appropriate") should not be feared as something that will come back to haunt you later. By appropriate I mean an objective recitation of your observations. Where documentation fails is when it is subjective and conclusionary. For example, writing a file memo that says "I informed the CEO, but he ignored me", is different than writing "I informed the CEO and am unaware that he took any action." Saying he ignored you is making assumptions and reaching a conclusion that may not be accurate. The CEO may have investigated and made a reasoned decision not to take action.

Sorry I am going off on this tangent, but this is a pet peeve of mine. I used to work in an organizations whose attorney advised us to never put anything in writing.

Dasher

Have always admired AJ's feedback.

On this one, however, I am in agreement with Paul. Having just come out of a VERY difficult HR situation with a major party, my steady documentation and refusal to say "this is hopeless and there is nothing HR can do has resulted (with patience) in a reversal of fortune. The difficult party has resigned (yeah!) and we can move on to more productive tasks.

You know what is right for your company in this situation. Be direct and dispassionate. Vent with us, but document and advise like the true HR Hero you are.

atainc

>I have an EE who is in a management position and I feel like my hands are tied
>when dealing with any problems with her. She is our QA Manager and I am
>having multiple problems with her....
>
>1) She dresses completely inappropriately in that she wears skin tight, low
>cut jeans with high spiked shoes everyday as well as skin tight tops. I have
>tried to address this issue with her but have gotten almost nowhere - I have
>gotten her tops to not show cleavage but her pants are so low cut that when
>she bends over you see the color of her thong that day. I have forced her to
>order safety shoes due to the amount of time she spends in the plant but she
>does not wear them.
>
>2) She does not handle stress well and I have had several instances of her
>getting into shouting matches on the plant floor - at least one with another
>member of management!! When she does this she does not care who is around or
>what is said - just that she is angry.
>
>3) Her work performance - this is the worst thing. She spends soooo much
>time smoking with our Mfg. Director and Sales and Marketing Director that she
>gets nothing done some days. I have had people tell me that they spend
>literally hours in the breakroom smoking and talking - who knows about what!!!
> She then complains that she does not have enough time to get her job done and
>starts crying about her stress level.
>
>While all these may seem like things that should be able to be addressed - I
>cannot do anything. The Mfg. Director and Sales and Marketing Director are
>sons of the company president and therefore will not be going anywhere. They
>follow this woman around like a puppy dog fighting over a bone - if one is not
>with her the other one is. The Sales & Marketing Director, if you say
>something to him about this issue, will back off for a few days, neither can
>stay away from her and as a result, she can do no wrong.
>
>This is obviously causing a considerable amount of frustration on the
>production floor and has caused alot of morale and trust issues amount
>management personnel.
>
>Any ideas about what can be done?

Paul in Cannon Beach

Did I miss something?

AJ SPHR

I think atainc's response to the original post must be written in invisible ink.#-o

atainc

> >I have an EE who is in a management position and I feel like my hands are tied
>>when dealing with any problems with her. She is our QA Manager and I am
>>having multiple problems with her....
>>
>>1) She dresses completely inappropriately in that she wears skin tight, low
>>cut jeans with high spiked shoes everyday as well as skin tight tops. I have
>>tried to address this issue with her but have gotten almost nowhere - I have
>>gotten her tops to not show cleavage but her pants are so low cut that when
>>she bends over you see the color of her thong that day. I have forced her to
>>order safety shoes due to the amount of time she spends in the plant but she
>>does not wear them.
>>
>>2) She does not handle stress well and I have had several instances of her
>>getting into shouting matches on the plant floor - at least one with another
>>member of management!! When she does this she does not care who is around or
>>what is said - just that she is angry.
>>
>>3) Her work performance - this is the worst thing. She spends soooo much
>>time smoking with our Mfg. Director and Sales and Marketing Director that she
>>gets nothing done some days. I have had people tell me that they spend
>>literally hours in the breakroom smoking and talking - who knows about what!!!
>> She then complains that she does not have enough time to get her job done and
>>starts crying about her stress level.
>>
>>While all these may seem like things that should be able to be addressed - I
>>cannot do anything. The Mfg. Director and Sales and Marketing Director are
>>sons of the company president and therefore will not be going anywhere. They
>>follow this woman around like a puppy dog fighting over a bone - if one is not
>>with her the other one is. The Sales & Marketing Director, if you say
>>something to him about this issue, will back off for a few days, neither can
>>stay away from her and as a result, she can do no wrong.
>>
>>This is obviously causing a considerable amount of frustration on the
>>production floor and has caused alot of morale and trust issues amount
>>management personnel.
>>




"Any ideas about what can be done?"

Oh yes!

If this was not such a dysfunctional company (and you are not going to like this), I would start by firing my HR Manager if I was the owner. I think the last thing Daddy wants is two teed off daughters-in-law coming into his company and ripping his sons for lusting after his QA Manager. Not to mention the catfight that might ensue with the QA Manager. It is your job to make sure the owner stays out of trouble and court concerning personnel matters. If you can't get daddy's boys away from her, get her away from them.

Now with that said, let's get down to business. How did this woman get hired anyway!? Did the company not run reference checks and do a pysch eval (could have adressed her inability to handle stress) on her during the interview process? I believe those would have turned up something. How was she dressed when she interviewed? How did she present herself? Who is her supervisor? If it is one of the sons then find out what his problem is.

Does this company have policies addressing these issues (performance, dress, insubordination, smoke breaks, safety shoes) you have mentioned? If not, then maybe you need to look for another employer who does. That way, you have some bite when - and I agree with Paul and Dasher - you "DOCUMENT" her deficiencies. You may think this is her supervisor's job (which obviously they are not doing), but you have stated that you forced her into a better dress code, so you have already established a supervisory role with her. Put them in a letter or form format (deal with facts and keep personal feelings out of it) describing what policies she has violated and present them to her with a course of action and time frame to correct them. Have a witness to sit in on the sessions and if she refuses to sign acknowledging her "violation of company policy" then write on the form that employee refuses to sign and have witness sign also. You mentioned that the owner does not like confrontations. Most owners don't. That is the reason they own the company and are not HR Managers. Does he like having a company that has low morale, therefore causing low production? You need to talk to Daddy and let him know what is going on and what course of action he needs to take to get a grip on this out-of-control QA Manager. Just make sure that you have everything documented and can present facts and not speculation to him. I would rather have a HR Manager that will keep me out of hot water, then to have one who says they feel like their hands are tied. You have the power of the pen. Use it to document. She is just the manipulative QA Manager who obviously is pulling your chain. You are the owners HR Manager, who he has hired to handle personnel matters within legal reason. She will soon be gone if you use the resources available to you. All of the employees of this company are expecting to be treated fairly. Don't give them the perception this woman has control. If I sound harsh, please excuse me. It is probably my 22 years in the military kicking in. Good luck.

LindaS

Thank you for your response however, I HAVE gone to the owner - on more than one occasion - to discuss these issues but, as I said, he does not like confrontation and his one son knows EXACTLY what to say to appease daddy.

As for hiring, it was the strangest thing...

She was not hired off the street but rather started out as a consultant. All of a sudden the consulting company no longer wanted our business (they did not want one person here FT) and informed HER that they had NOTHING else for her so she was being terminated from the consulting company. I TRIED, ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION, to talk the owner out of hiring her due to the numerous issues listed above. In the end, our attorney felt that - as a result of one of the sons actions - if we did NOT hire her she would have a more valid case for possible sexual harrassment (one brother apparently caught the other brother making out with her in one of our offices).

While I have addressed SOME issues with her, I do not agree that I have a "supervisory" role with her. In the discussion with her regarding her clothing, yes I did get her to stop displaying her bras each day but she still wears the tight jeans, etc. and when I took the issue to her supervisor, he sent it down to his son, whose response was, "I've got bigger fish to fry".

I have gone to the president, my boss by the way, on numerous occasions but I do not hold more power and/or authority than the sons. As they say, blood is thicker than water. I have brought up the numerous issues with this woman but there are always excuses. As I stated in my intial post, we have even had outside consultants talk to the president about her but to no avail.

Several of you mentioned finding another job - this is a very difficult decision for me to make on many levels but I agree that something needs to be done with her - I just don't know what it is!!!

atainc

My guess is that Daddy knows more about this woman than what he is willing to tell. As the old saying goes "the apple (s) doesn't fall far from the tree." You have two choices. Find better employment with a reputable company (because I would be reluctant to do business with this company) or stay and stand your ground. I personally would stay and stand my ground, but that is the military coming out of me. You seem to be doing what you have been hired to do. Nae, you are right. How this woman is treated with preference by the sons is sending a message that the others have to do the same to get treated fairly. Sounds like sexual harassment to me. Linda, stand your ground and keep documenting everything this woman is violating. My guess is that someday you will need it in court to save Daddy's butt. Maybe! Just remember, what goes up, will someday come crashing down. Just be out of the way when it does. Paul, as far as the explosion goes, it is going to come and probably sooner than later. Again, good luck.

NaeNae55

Many good points have been made on this thread, though I must admit I am a strong believer in the power of a story told well. However, there is another side of this that no one has mentioned.

LindaS (or other female employees) might have a sexual harrassment claim. This employee gets special treatment because she 1) dresses in a sexually provocative way, 2) flirts with the 'sons' of the top brass, 3) spends her time working on her relationship with them instead of her job, and 4) has been seen on at least one occassion in a compromising position with one of the sons.

Females who do not do these steps in this organization do not get the same considerations. In fact, Linda is an HR professional whose advice is completely ignored. Her position has become uncomfortable enough that she is considering leaving her employment. She has reason to believe she would not be ignored if she followed the methods of the female in question. Other female employees probably feel the same way.

The only sure-fire way to save the company (if it is even possible) from a lawsuit is to deal with this employee's issues immediately. If she rejects the advances of one of the sons, or if one of the sons loses interest, BEFORE the issues are dealt with, it will be too late.

Linda, I do not envy you. I would certainly document things to make sure you are covered and don't become the scape goat when things go sour. Only you can tell if it is worth it to keep approaching the boss or to leave. Either way, I sincerely wish you luck.

Nae

Paul in Cannon Beach

Does your company have any formal evaluation process? Are there metrics by which a QA Manager can be evaluated? It seems like the only meausurements by which she has been evaluated so far are.. oh, never mind.

stilldazed

At the risk of beating this one beyond death, I think there may be one more approach that I haven't seen mentioned. It is something I've tried, has taken considerable time and effort, and is proving to be a win/win situation for my employer. I have taken to 'mentoring' the dysfunctional one, in a situation with different details, what sounds like a similar work environment, and an equally dysfunctional set of circumstances whereby other workers are suffering, I struggled with feeling as if I could do nothing about a bad situation to thinking it was time for me to move on from a job that I really like to 'building a file' (so to speak) on the dysfunctional one and arrived at the mentoring step, which is working very well for me (making some of my job easier), the dysfunctional one (coaching into more consistently acceptable work conduct), and my company. You could consider something similar, and I can assure you it wil challenge you beyond what you think you can do sometimes but can be very valuable experience and will help you feel like you are working toward a solution. You will have to overcome the adversarial association with the fluzy, and you may find that she is very willing to have the guidance.

best wishes.

Paul in Cannon Beach

I admire the approach you are suggesting and I could see it working in most situations. The problem I would foresee in the situation described above is that this management employee's behavior is working for them. It landed her the job and the rapt attention of the top brass. So what would be her motivation to change? I can't see any. The owner is unwilling to confront and the next two in line are part of the problem.

I still say the best approach is document and stay out of the blast zone when things get ugly.

LindaS

Thanks again and I agree with Paul, while mentoring may be a good idea in most instances, in this one I do not see this working. As has been stated, her manner of dress and the way she carries herself has caught the attention of upper management and as a result, the one son jumps as soon as she needs something and the other one follows after her like a puppy. She has no motivation to change and there is no reason for her to - she is getting exactly what she wants by doing what she is doing.

I just got done talking with one of our supervisors about her and the morale in our shop is very low among management people because of her. She picks and chooses what she wants to get involved in, her needs are met quickly while significant needs on the plant floor sit for years, she snaps at other management personnel and storms off to throw a temper tantrum when they do not give her exactly what she wants and if she is told something she does not like, she runs to the one son and "tattles" and he comes running out to the plant to address whoever it is and make sure she gets her way.

I'll give you a small example...we have several computers in the plant that have been down for a minimum of one year. These computers are the ones our employees use to clock in and track their time throughout the day. Due to the two that are down numerous employees have to travel halfway across the plant to punch on and off of jobs - not to mention the lines at the end of the shift to clock out. The Mfg. Director has been aware of these problems since the computers went down but has not replaced them. Last week we had our "part time" girl move to FT for the summer (she is a student) and the QA Manager (who convinced the Mfg. Director she needs assistance) informed the Mfg. Director that she, the PT girl, needed a computer. She had her computer the next day!!!

It is this type of thing that frustrates me. How can I bump up morale when there is no trust among this management team and there never will be as long as this is going on??? The supervisors want no part of her, they withdraw when confronted by her because any type of disagreement on their part will quickly find its way back to the Mfg. Director who comes running to her rescue.

Documentation would normally be a great idea but for what??? I don't see it getting me anywhere.

Paul in Cannon Beach

Lets just pretend the relationship sours. The Mfg. Director comes to you and says "We need to get rid of the QA manager fast but Im worried about her suing us. Got any ideas?" Thats when you smile and reach down to your lower file and bring out a large folder with objective and specific documentation of the QA manager's poor performance, tantrums, and attitude problems.

Plus, I truly believe you will feel a lot better about the situation. You will be regaining a sense of control, albeit a small one.

Just be very, very careful.

mbeam

Tough situation to be in especially if you have a vested interest in the company.

Does the President realize the impact on morale and possibly productivity? Have you done any surveys? If it's anonymous and people are truly honest then how the feedback is received and acted upon may help you decide if you stay with this organization. If faced with feedback from others (since they're not acting upon your input) they still decide to ignore it then it may be time to leave or accept the situation as it is.

Does your organization have a mission/vision statement? If so, this may be able to be used with the feedback from the survey to show how out of alignment your organization is with what they state.

Wouldn't hurt to point out to the CEO concerns about employee retention when the economy improves.

Have found that supplying facts along with potential $ loss helps and do include the lack of respect as a factor.

Are one of the two sons set to take-over for Dad in the future? If so, getting your resume out now may help you get to a happier place sooner.

neveradull

Figure out a way for the wifes to find out, then act surprised when the sons coming crawling to you saying the bimbo must go.