Women's shoes

ritaanz

Here's my dilemma. My IT Manager is female and loves to wear these open toed backless wedge type shoes. They are about 1 1/2 to 2 inches high.

Several months ago she reports a work related injury. When she was leaving work to go to her car, she claimes that she tripped on a crack in the parking lot and fell injuring her thumb and hand. To this day she wears a leather brace on her hand and is now talking about having surgery.

We checked out the "crack" in the parking lot and yep, it's a crack, a very narrow one about 1/8 of an inch. I feel that the shoes she was wearing were the main reason she fell.

We have seen her literally walk out of her shoe here in the office. Luckily she catches herself on a desk or wall and doesn't fall.

My question is, can I tell/ask her to wear different shoes?

joannie

Since "Clumsy" isn't a protected class, I don't think telling her to wear different shoes would be discrimanatory, but if you tell her, are you going to ask all the other female employees not to wear that type shoe?

ritaanz

Tha majority of our females work on the manufacturing floor and they are required to have their foot covered. Sandals and such are not allowed.

As to the other females, only those that fall off their shoes, similar to the gazelle one.

HRQ

You can make your dress code require a certain style of footwear, (no open toes or heels, heel not higher than 2", etc.) just enforce it consistently.

I woulnd't tell her to change her shoes unless all employees are held to the same standard.

If she fails or refuses to comply with the new footwear requirement, will you be willing to send her home, write her up, eventually fire her?

I am redoing our injury reporting forms to include root cause analysis. There'll also be a section for the employee to complete on their voluntary statement, indicating how the injury happened, could have been prevented, what will the employee do differently next time. Possibly your employee might learn from that: "in the future I will lift my feet while walking, and will not wear shoes that don't stay on my feet."

Making her change her shoes won't change the fact that she is a clutz. x;-)

ritaanz

Wellllll, when we went to investigate this crack the next morning, she had difficulty pointing out the one that was responsible for her fall. Being a creature of habit, she always parked in the same spot and that morning was no different.

When I subtlely (can you imagine me subtle?) inquired whether the foot apparel could have contributed to the fall, she proceeded to explode. I guess that meant no. I cannot imagine what she would have written in the volunatry statement portion.

HRQ

Next time her shoe falls off, grab it and bop her on the head with it. Then smile sweetly, throw the shoe in the trash, and walk away.

ritaanz

Nice. Is that a way for a HR person to act?

HRQ

When someone can't walk like a normal human being? Yes. x;-)

Of COURSE I don't whack people with their shoes. Fun to consider though, isn't it?

Proper footwear is an ongoing battle in my company. EVERYONE wants to wear flip flops to work, and we battle it daily. Actually, if we battled it daily, it probably wouldn't be a problem any more.

The bigger problem is the supervisors get sick of dealing with it and stop enforcing it. Then we start to see more flip flops out there, make a stink at the monthly manager trainings, they get gung ho and enforce it for a while again. It's a cycle that never seems to end.

joannie

And along came the good fairy and she said, "Little Rabbit Foo Foo
I don't want to see you
scooping up the field mice
and bopping them on the head."

HRQ

You need to come work for my company, joannie. You'd fit right in.

joannie

Thanks, however that might compound your problem with Gazelle; I wear those kind of shoes, but at least I do know how to walk in them. Although, I have been known to take them off when required to run down the hall or out the door after someone.

HRQ

Gazelle is ritaanz's problem, not mine.

My problem is flip flops and staff members who love them too much.

I didn't think to check your profile. What kind of business are you in? Who are you running after?

joannie

Oops, sorry, long day. I'm the HR & Credit Manager for a trucking company so I have the distinct pleasure of chasing employees and customers.

HRQ

Ahhh. Our employees have to chase small children down the hall and sometimes out the door when they "bolt." This is one reason we don't allow flip flops. They'll kill themselves trying to run in them.

E Wart

I agree with you on shoe wear that employees/people wear now adays. I don't think about 90% of it looks professional. I hate walking down the hall and hearing flip, flop and look and employee barely has a shoe on.
However, I am going to say this and then step back.
I had to go out this week and buy me several sets of new "shoes". I had one pair of shoes (and I am a shoe horse) that I could wear and they were a $1 pair of rubber flip flops) I have "developed" a foot condition and I can't STAND to have anything touching my big toe area. (I have got to have surgery/toe fusion, but won't be able to drive for 6 weeks so am putting it off.) Now, I am in the flip/flop league. I feel so guilty about how I look. However, at least the ones I bought look sort of dressy... which is better than walking around barefooted. (I am the kind of person who wouldn't come to work without hose on.)
I will admit, it is certainly more comfortable.
E Wart

ritaanz

Ladies, I can enjoy the banter. However, this is going to cost our workers comp carrier bucks, First the thumb has to be fixed. Then she's claiming carpal tunnel and that's another surgery.

On the bright side, maybe the 6 to 10 weeks that she's out will show us we can live with Geeks for Hire or Data Dr.

joannie

Sorry Ritaanz. I assume your ee had already clocked out for the day? If so, why would the claim be covered by comp? If she had stopped before going home and fallen in Wallie World's parking lot you wouldn't be dealing with a comp issue, would you?

HRQ

Sucks, but injuries that occur while the employee is walking to/from their car can be covered. You are responsible for making sure all your worksites are safe, and parking lot is included.

I wouldn't have considered a 1/8" crack to be a threat, however.

HRQ

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-07-07 AT 04:11PM (CST)[/font][br][br]My first answer was actually a real one. I wouldn't tell her she can't wear the shoes any more until I've rolled out the change in dress code for non-manufacturing staff, and am prepared to apply consequences if/when she refuses to comply.

The injury is what it is. You can't change that but as far as preventing future similar trip/fall issues, I'd at least consider the dress code change. Sad for any other ladies who can wear cute sandals safely.

Edit: I have more questions.

How did the thumb injury turn into carpal tunnel? Just curious.

Also, finding she's "replaceable" with an outside contractor while she's out on leave for a job-related injury could be perceived as retaliation for reporting her injury, huh?

ACU Frank

This shouldn't be a work comp injury, but rather a general liability issue.

ritaanz

When I spoke to our insurance broker, he said in the long run it would be cheaper under workers comp.

ritaanz

Drat. Retaliation.

She fell and hurt her thumb and hand.

Paul in Cannon Beach

If she came to work wearing stilts you wouldn't allow it, would you?

I say you are stuck with the WC claim but you should at least prohibit her from wearing these shoes as you suspect they contributed to the accident.

And guess what you get to monitor now?

ritaanz

No problem. I'll hire a safety and environment guy with a foot fetish.

E Wart

I wonder if you had reported this differently to the W/C folks, if it could have been taken out of your hands.
First let me say it may depend upon what state you are in and your state law may make this null and void. However, could have been worth a try.
When you reported the claim, you should have said that it was an "alledged fall in the parking lot due to crack in cement". (We have been told by the W/C people to start a report with "alledged" when we want "special investigation". Then when you get to "cause of accident" you could include something about injury could have been caused by shoes worn, not the crack in cement.
Now the next thing, it may not have mattered with WC. What I have been told is if it is in your parking lot, whether employee is on the clock or not, it is worker's comp. We had someone in one our plants step in a hole and hurt knee and we had to eat it. W/C may say it doesn't matter that shoes caused it, but would be worth a try. Even more importantly, if they feel that the shoes caused it and it is not w/c, let them deny it and you don't have to get involved.
E Wart

Catbert46

I have had two specific incidents with employee falls in the parking lot and was told in both cases that it wasn't comp and maybe liability but only if it was caused from negligence.

Can someone please tell me when the majority of the population lost all common sense? Especially when it comes to proper foot wear at the office. Geez, I'd love to be able to quit having the flip flop conversation at least once a week!

Ginger

ACU Frank

I agree. I think this one is rather easy to fight. I won a case just like this two weeks ago. The employee clocked out for lunch, was almost to her car in the parking lot, and stumbled. She reached out against her car to stop herself from falling and wrenched her back. WC carrier says "So sorry." Once in awhile, the good guys can win one!

Paul in Cannon Beach

Frank, what was their basis for denying the claim?

ACU Frank

She was off the clock and out of the building. Two days later, I had an employee get in a fender bender on her way to Quizno's. She actually called from the scene to ask me where she needed to go to get checked out. Some of these folks just don't get it.

ray a

My understanding was that the ee was covered coming in to work and leaving as long as they were on company premises. We had an ee fall in the parking lot this winter, slipped on ice, as she was walking between two cars on her way in to work in the morning. She was covered.

Paul in Cannon Beach

Hmm.. seems like two different definitions of what is covered. The original post indicated the high heeled employee was in the "parking lot" which I assume is company premises.

Rita, what is your WC carrier telling you?