at will termination

Beverlee

Hi All, A few weeks ago, I read a wonderful, short, and polite termination speech-so to speak- for an EE who just didn't fit in, and things weren't working out. I've searched all day, and haven't been able to find it.

I know it was short & sweet, and letting the EE go without cause.

I hope if you remember this, you can point me in the right direction, or help me w/ wording a termination speech as such.

The EE in this case, is quite the drama queen, refuses all attempts at compromise, and thinks the world and company should revolve around her. She's disruptive, disrespectful, and outright disagreeable.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Irie

[url]http://www.hrhero.com/employersforum/DCForumID14/7067.html[/url]

Perhaps this one?

Beverlee

not quite, but thank you so much for looking.

I believe it was along the lines of letting the EE go, quite clearly, but without cause.

The language in our admin manual is quite clear as far as terminable at will. I may have to sketch out something for the Supervisor who will be doing the firing, and make sure I am present to keep the objective clear. I'd like to be as precise as possible that the EE is being let go, but without getting into a "cause."

Thanks again!

HR In NH

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-11-06 AT 01:45PM (CST)[/font][br][br]When I terminate someone, I keep it short and simple. I would say something like this:

"After careful consideration, we have decided to terminate your employment. We feel this decision is in the best interest of our company.

Here is your final check, including any vacation time, etc., along with a letter outlining termination information (insurance end date, COBRA info, 401k info, neutral reference policy, etc]. Your insurance will end on ----. We have a neutral reference policy and will only verify your last title and dates of employment. You may or may not be eligible for unemployment, but you can apply.

You are free to collect your belongings now, or you may arrange with us to collect them at a later time. If you have any questions, please contact me. We wish you the best of luck."

And that's it...do not engage in a debate and be firm. If she attemps to turn it into a debate, politely notify her that your decision is final and she is free to leave now and she can arrange a later date to collect her belongings. Also, make sure you have another manager present and document the whole incident afterwards.

Over the years, there have been a few times where we had to threaten to call the police, but the employee left before that became necessary.

Hope that helps!

Beverlee

Thank you so much! "In the best interest in the company" is the perfect phrase!

The supervisor in question is fairly new herself, and I know she is uncomfortable. I am willing to pay the UI, it is a much chepaer cost in the long run.

Thanks again!

System

In the interest of an alternative opinion, I would like to chime in. I am fully supportive of the "at-will" employment relationship, and include the phrase in and meaning in tons of policies, documents and offer letters. However, I have never, ever, encountered a termination decision that is truly based on "no reason at all" There is always SOMETHING that led to a decsion to terminate, unless your company just indiscriminately walks around and fires people for absolutely no reason whatsoever, and I doubt you do. Therefore, I am going to assume you do want this employee terminated for some reason - whether its performance, attitude, unacceptable behavior, whatever - but there's always something that is causing you to want to end the realtionship. And if that's the case, any attorney worth their salt will get to the bottom of it and put forth that your 'at-will" decison was pretextual to a decison that was based on discriminitory motives (pick your favorite: age, race, gender...) or, will shoot for the 'wrongful termination' attack. My point is, terminations based on at-will criteria are certainly legally accepted approaches - But if it ever goes in front of a jury, we all know juries don't base their decisions on rule of law, they base it on emotion and a percepttion of fairness. And time and again, the company ends up paying dearly - especially if during a trial, it comes out that there really were other reasons why the company wanted the employee terminated. Good luck sticking to your argument that "we don't need a reason, the employee is at-will" You very well might prevail - but then again, you might not. Is it worth the gamble?

Beverlee

I most sincerely appreciate your opinion, thanks for sharing. In my original post, I did mention a few of the minor complaints. I also have documentation to back up misconduct such as: using personal info of employees for personal purposes, (she's phoning officers and asking them for dates), sexual harrasment and creating a hostile work enviroment, (loudly discussing the personal lives of co-workers and pondering on sexual activities), conduct unbecoming to a county employee, (getting arrested and jailed for alcohol intoxication in a public place), not to mention several other abuses of sick leave, falsifying a work comp injury report, etc. I have clear and precise documentation of the signed complaints against her, including signed verbal, and written warnings to her.

However, her supervisor, our county attorney, (I'm in the public sector), and our CEO, simply wish to let her go and pay the UI, if necessary.
And since the EE in question has already asked and received a copy of her personnel file, including all the documents; I believe she will move onto her next position. Is it worth the gamble? In this case, I believe so- fortunately it's not my call to make!

System

I certainly appreciate the tough position you are in. It seems very unusual that you (your bosses) would have such extensive cause for termination, including the documentation, yet opt not to cite these factors in the decision to terminate. It appears to be much riskier to go with the "at-will" reason for termination, vs a decsion based upon an abundance of evidence that she engaged in serious misconduct (including violation of your harassment policies), abused time off policies, falsifyed records, and so on. Regardless of what you do with her unemployment (let her file and don't challenge), the choice of not terminating her for cause, but rather stating "it would be best for the organization" if you let her go leaves you seemingly much more vulnerable to legal challenges. But, that's just one guy's opinion.....

P.S. Are public employers required to give copies of the personel file to employees if they request it?

Whirlwind

Not to answer for Beverlee in Kentucky, but I can tell you that in Texas public employers are definitely required to give a copy of the personnel file to the employee and to anybody else who requests it under the open records act. Of course, there are exceptions to the public release requirement for things like medical info, SSN, etc.

Beverlee

Yes, we give employees copies at their request for 10 cents per page. I believe we are required by several court rulings, but I truly don't have a problem w/ it anyway.

I do know that the "powers that be" prefer to let a bad employee go- rather than use documentation until necessary. If we terminate her for cause, she would not receive UI. And while we eventually won the last UI appeal, it took a lot of time away from my other duties. Please don't get me wrong- we have terminated for cause. This situation is more of an internal problem in one department, rather than an entire issue for all departments. Heh- is that clear as mud? :-)

Thanks!

AnneHa

We generally say something like 'based on evaluative information from superviory staff regarding your performance progress and after consultation with the director, a decision has been made to terminate your employment effective 00/00/0000.'

If she is already aware of the info in her file, then we figure, "'nuff said."

Anne in Ohio

Beverlee

Thanks! I will post results when available.