Okay - I got one!

Here's my dilemna...

I'm the HR Manager of a manufacturing company. We have 3 locations, two of which are in Washington State and one that is in North Carolina. All told, we have approx. 325 full time employees in Washington State (the other 60 are temp-to-hire employees) and 59 full time employees in North Carolina. We are a non-union shop and my issue involves our different sick leave policies.

About 25 years ago, the founder of the company, created a liberal sick leave policy. An employee could take as many as 30 paid sick days per incident. Production folks didn't immediately get the paid 30 days. Instead they had to follow this schedule:

1st day missed no pay
2nd day missed 2 hours of pay
3rd day missed 4 hours of pay
4th day missed 6 hours of pay
5th day missed Full pay (8 hrs).
6th day and up 30 work days

About 4 years ago, we changed the policy (we were experiencing extreme abuse) in Washington State and eliminated the 30 paid sick days and put in place a traditional sick policy of 40 paid hours per year. We also created a Short Term Disability bank for the Washington Folks. The Short Term Disability bank was preloaded with hours based on how long you were with the company. Anyone here longer than 20 years, received 200 hours in their bank. The max. someone can have in their bank is 480 hours. They get more hours in their bank if they don't use their sick time during the year. In other words, don't use it & bank it at the end of the year. It has mostly been viewed as a win-win benefit by the employees.

However, although we changed in Washington, we didn't force the North Carolina group to follow, so they've kept the old 30 paid days policy. Now, with a new HR Manager (me - I can't believe I've been here over a year already) and a new President at North Carolina, I think it's time to change their policy to our policy & I'm facing opposition from the plant manager.

His argument is three-fold:
1. We don't have an attendance problem at NC. On a per employee paid sick average, they exceed the hours of our corporate location (one of the locations in Washington). We have an average of 21.65 hours per person and they have an average of 28.18 hours per person. Their argument is that if we eliminated the 6-7 "high rollers" from the total, they would average less than 5 hours per person. Sure they would, but that's not the total number that we are looking at - we are looking at the big picture.

2. There's a great incentive to the current program - you don't call in sick a lot. This seems particularly harsh. Someone has a sick kid and if you stay home then you'll lose a day of pay. Have the flu & are throwing up, if you stay home you'll lose pay. The policy seems to penalize people for taking care of themselves.
3. It sounds like an extra week of vacation to me. This argument particularly boils me. It's not vacation - it's sick time. It's only supposed to be used as sick time & if people abuse it - discipline 'em. We're managers, we need to manage.

This has been a long post, but I'm curious as to your thoughts on how to turn them around or even hear a different point of view. I'm also curious as to which metrics I can use to show that 30 day program is a liability. Any thoughts?

Comments

  • 13 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • There will always be abuse by some employees of any sick leave program. As I see it, the 30 days of paid sick leave enables the big time abusers who are looking for a big chunk of time off. Once you suffer through the first few days, then you have it made. The other policy of 40 hours per year is more friendly to the small time abusers who want a day here and a day there.

    We allow three incidents of sick leave per year with no documentation. They can be up to a day but even going home an hour early with a headache counts as an incident. After that, the employee would have to seek medical care to have paid sick leave. Use of these undocumented sick leave days is noted on the yearly review as I do not believe that employees can have exactly three incidents per year (no more and no less) and have that happen each and every year. By the way, when we went from three days to three incidents, now most all undocumented sick leave is for a full 8 hours. Going home ill or with a headache is very rare now. This tells me the former policy was abused just as I thought.

    Bottom line: Everybody gets sick some time. You do want the sick leave for your good employees. Abuse is the price that must be paid for the positive benefit of sick leave. My argument to the other location would be that they knew who their abusers were and yet either did not weed them our or did not demand medical certificates or take other corrective action. That was their choice and this choice drives the corporate decision to make the new policy uniform for both locations.
  • WT - I like your bottom line! I'm ready to make the decision that they are just going to have to move to the "new" policy. I guess the part I really struggle with is the "it's an extra week of vacation" excuse. Yes, abuse will happen - it's happening now, but manage it! Thanks for your comments! x:-)
  • M.:

    Last year we changed our sick policy to include usage for parents with children so if the employee was sick and provided a doctor's note, it was a freebie. If the child was sick and the ee provided a doctor's note, another freebie.

    Talk about abuse: over 3 quarters we lost approximately $990,000.00 because of the obvious abuse. Therefore we have recently come up with the plan that you get 2 doctor's notes and then you begin accruing absences....and if you use your 5 in a rolling 12 month period, then you're out. EE's can also begin using sick time at the 6 month mark of employment.

    Don't know about the metrics but 30 days is a first for me....doesn't the employer qualify for FMLA?

    Just random thoughts...good luck!

    Jane in Lexington
  • 30 days?!?!?!?! Here's my two cents - no matter how you change this policy you're going to upset a whole mess of people. We start our employees with 10 PTO (paid time off) days per year. I've been with my current company for 4 years and now have 16 days per year - that's it for sick time, vacation time, personal time, anytime, period! If you don't have any PTO's your absence is unexcused, no pay. You get an occurrence regardless of whether or not you have a doctor's note. Six occurrences is termination. We have less than 50 employees, so no FMLA. However, we offer an unpaid LOA that follows the same guidelines as FMLA. Evaluations are conducted quarterly and absences go on the evaluations. All occurrences are expunged at the beginning of December. We run a lean operation, people know not to miss work, so, we only have two people in the verbal warning stage for attendance (two unexcused absences). You probably have an environment where your employees feel entitled to those days off since your company's founder made that a benefit so long ago. You're 100% correct that you have to "manage" this situation. By managing this situation you can change the environment over time without changing the policy or altering the "benefit" and then those who really need the time don't loose out on such a wonderful benefit. It's all what you're used to. I hate to say this, but when you hire folks you tell them about this benefit upon introduction to the company, you're going to attract folks that will use this benefit. We tell folks during the interview what kind of policy we have and it probably turns off quite a few candidates, but we end up getting the ones that don't miss a lot of work since they know going into the job that it's not an option.
  • Thanks Brother Bluto for your comments. You are correct, people were told when they began with the NC site that they had 30 days of sick, but they were also told (in the same handbook) that all benefits/policies are subject to change. This qualifies as a change. I agree, 30 days is a nice benefit, but we've introduced the Short Term Disability bank to offset the loss of the 30 day benefit. Thanks for your input! x:-)

  • I think the GM has a hell of an argument with (1). If it ain't broke don't fix it. You will never get your big picture logic over to the masses. You will have merely taken away a great benefit that they have not abused. Look at it this way, " Here comes the new HR person in their infinfate wisdom to screw our ##### up." This is a good way to get union talk started and that is the LAST thing you want to do.

    Why not just start requiring doctor's notes to qualify for the sick leave?

    Baby steps Mandi, baby steps.
  • Stephen, I see your point, but instead of baby steps, I kinda prefer someone ripping the bandaid off me rather than peeling it off.

    Plus I DO see a problem in #1. They have 6-7 "high rollers" out of 59 employees. That's a problem.
  • But there may be other ways to deal with 6-7 high rollers than what she is proposing. If it's me and my GM is not screaming to make a change, I'm fighting other battles. With the info I have I believe there are too many negatives.


  • Thanks for the feedback SMACE. The counter argument to number one is this: Correct, should you take the high rollers out of the equation your per person sick time drops, but all that shows is that your current policy is working - people are coming to work sick.

    It's definitely an interesting situation I find myself in and we are going to have a follow up conference call this week. Thanks to those who have offered their comments!

    x:-)
  • This is one of many reasons why we ditched our sick time and rolled it into PTO. We added an extra 5 days to everyone's PTO a couple years ago and it actually went over really well. No more lying about being sick just to get those days, or lying for your kids being sick. That was our biggest complaint. EE's who had kids would ultimately use all their sick days. (alleging that they were sick instead of their children). Now everyone gets an extra week of vacation. You are the master of your time!
  • We are looking into changing from separate vacation and personal time to all PTO. In Illinois, I believe we have to pay for vacation time when an ee leaves and for earned but unused personal time.Does anyone know how this works with PTO?
  • Here in the Land of 10,000 Ways to Get Paid for Not Working, all the PTO time would be payable unless the employer documents what part of the PTO bank is "vacation" and what part is "sick time", if I'm interpreting Brown vs. Tonka correctly. But if you do that, it defeats the purpose of PTO.
  • I'm not sure of any hard and fast rules governing the PTO payout policy, but I'll tell you what we do...if an employee has any earned by unused PTO, they can role it over to the next year. If they haven't used any PTO in two years, they are paid the PTO they earned from the first year or asked to take a vacation. You can imagine this doesn't happen too often. If an employee is terminated, they do not get any remaining earned but unused PTO's - their loss! If any employee resigns and works their two week notice, they get all remaining earned, but unused PTO's paid out to them in their final pay check. Hope this helps!
Sign In or Register to comment.