How would you handle this? Disciplinary action.

Jez

Thanks in advance for your input. How would you handle this?

A salesperson was very disrespectful to a VP. Essentially said VP wasn't taking an important matter seriously, jeopardizing an account with an important client. The salesperson raised his voice, threw the "F" word around more than a few times, called the VP inept and hung up on her. Needless to say, the VP is VERY angry. The salesperson has no prior disciplinary issues. Curious about how my HR colleagues view this.

TN HR

Without knowing any more facts it's tough to say. Gut feeling is that, depending on your culture and past practice, the "f" word may be enough to warrant immediate termination.

Having said that, there are industries where this sort of "dialogue" (particularly if the salesperson is right and the VP is an ass clown) is acceptable.

Tell us more.

Gene

Whatever

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-22-05 AT 09:55AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Have you spoken to the salesperson? Sounds as if you have half the story.

marc

The salesperson can be an excellent customer liason - and after all, if he/she is on commission, the paycheck is ultimately dependent upon a satisfied customer.

We need more information. My answer would depend upon the "important matter" not being taken seriously, but I would also let those that the VP and the salesperson report to handle it how they see fit.

Companies run on sales, but they don't run themselves so both the VP and the salesperson have important stakes. If it is just business details, they need to be worked out in normal course. But if it is some sort of personality conflict, power play or the like - then discipline may be appropriate.

As to the salespersons language and raised voice - those things need to be behind closed doors, and even then - disrespectful conduct should not be tolerated - from any person.

LivindonSouth

Marc commented that such discussions should occur behind closed doors. Since it was on the telephone, I think it was a fairly private exchange. Salespeople and the culture can generate some steam and heat, thank goodness. Without knowing the players personally, their prior relationship and interraction, how long the VP has been in that role and the point being argued, it's impossible to say. The 'F' word in itself is never a substantial reason to discipline or terminate. Well, almost never.

I would hope the salesperson is passionate about his assignment and his reaction to whatever he was ticked about. I would also hope the VP isn't so thin skinned as to not allow passionate dialog with her subordinates. Sounds as if there's 'stuff rumbling under the surface'.

pork1

JEZ: Follow your employee policy and procedures written words and TERMINATE!

INSUBORDINATION in our "world of work" and written policy would bring forth an immediate termination. Evidently, you or someone else heard the conversation and will support the VPs side of the story, that all of this did happen, as written.

It is the VP who should register the formal complaint and cause the termination action to go forth. Of course, this is assuming that the salesperson is supervised by the VP, otherwise, some other parties will have to become involved.

PORK

LivindonSouth

Having a disagreement during which profanity is used does not necessarily equate to insubordination. To determine insubordination I would have to know the content of the discussion, whether the executive issued a command that the subordinate refused to follow and whether there is in fact a direct supervisory relationship involved.

marc

Curses on this poor memory of mine!

A few months ago, a story was published in one of these employment law letters about an EE who was terminated for insubordination - basically using very bad language. The almost inevitable lawsuit was filed. I don't remember if it was in the actual suit or an appeal, but bottom line was, the termination was overturned. The EE won a judgement and was returned to work.

I think this was a union situation, but again, memory is spotty.

Perhaps others will have better specifics - if I am even on the right track.

LivindonSouth

Arbitrators are notorious for overturning disciplinary action that has resulted, in part or in whole, from extreme vulgarity/profanity directed at supervisors and managers by union members. It's to the point that you best not even consider termination or suspension no matter what language is used in what type of threatening manner. 'He was having a bad moment' is the typical conclusion.

It won't be long before the 9th circuit mirrors that and then it will spread further in all types of behavior and anti-social behavior.

As a side note, this manner of thinking permeated the public schools some 15-20 years ago. Now it is perfectly acceptable in most schools for young students to call their teacher a MF, or a WMF. The principals and administration expect and condone it. The parents teach it.

The workplace is next.

Whatever

Do not terminate at this point, if at all. Your post seems to give only the VP's side of the story. What is the salesperson's side. Until you know the full story, you cannot draw any conclusions. Simply using the F word is not grounds for dismissal. When you have the full story, let us know and maybe we can come up with good advice.

Shadowfax

Most arbitrators with whom I haave had experience would never equate the f word with insubordination. Now, the f word, as a lot of othert words, can be used in lots of ways, some threatening, some not. And I agree with others, depending on what the issue was and the past relationship of the parties and to some extent haw hard headed the VP was being..everyohne needs to be cautioned about these kinds of impertinance, but termination is way over the top in my humble o...

2445428

It is hard to believe that anyone would think raising one's voice at anyone in the workplace, throwing around the "f" word, and then hanging up on that person is anything other than hostile and inappropriate behavior in any kind of work environment! The original post didn't sound like the employee was just kidding.

One of our written policies states, "Failure to get along and cooperate with coworkers, supervisors, management and customers may lead to termination. The ability to communicate effectively, tactfully, and courteously is a vital part of our job." Regardless if this situation happened in private, discipline would be administered. The type of discipline could range from suspension without pay or termination and would be dependant upon the circumstances of the situation, and the disciplinary history of the employee.

My 2 cents worth!

Open1

"Failure to get along and cooperate with coworkers, supervisors, management and customers may lead to termination. The ability to communicate effectively, tactfully, and courteously is a vital part of our job."

Oooooh, I like that! May I plagiarize? ;;)