I-9 ON-LINE VERIFICATION UP-DATE # 4

pork1

Well after a month of investigations, terminations, recruiting and placement, and all getting I-9 data varification with the save program, I finally hit number 52 and 53 without a hitch, 52 was a Hispanic employee hired the day before and 53 was an employee hired the same day of the enrollment. One received his confirmation from Department of Homeland Security that his I-9 data was confirmed as completed on the I-9. Number 53, I-9 data was inputed into the verification process and we were directed to refer the individual to the DHS/USCIS service office. This morning, I printed off the prepared document signed and executed a suspension of the individual with written instructions to visit the nearest USCIS center for correction of data entry. The individual was clocked out and sent on his way and given 8 working days to return to this office with the documentation from DHS/USCIS, from which we will base a change in our original submission. We will now wait until August 26 or sooner to see if he comes back. If he does, we will make the corrections to the I-9 and re-enter the data for confirmation. If he does not return, we will terminate his employment due to "an attendance" issue and not for anyother reason. I know he want return because I recognized him as "Luis Castro", a previous x-employee that quit our employment several years ago to go back to Mexico due to family illiness. This time his documents where a totally different person. I have followed procedures and again the message will get out that we can and do verify I-9 data.

FOR Those subscribers who care the SAVE program remains alive and well. I personally have experienced no complications with the system nor the customer service personnel who help when I get bogged down. This company has all new hires documented as to the correctness of the I-9 data and the supporting program documents which are available to this company to vouch for our execution of the I-9 data and the handling of each employee's enrollments.

I remain, as before, confirmed that this company has hired 100% of our new hires, inaccordance with, the intended purposes of the I-9. We have hired either US Citizens or foreign nationals with supporting documents that are verified by DHS/USCIS/SSA (DATA BANKS). I recommend to all the SAVE program for validations of your I-9 work.

PORK

stellad

PORK, all i can say that the program works, two weeks ago we hired 2 indivdials and i used the dac service which only verfies if the numbers are in good status and when it was issued, well that program came back stating the numbers were invalid, today these individuals came back with 2 new numbers so i used the on-line program and it came back with info stating info did not match, so i printed the form and the supervisor will speak to them to see if they want to contest it, i doubt they will so im sure they will also be terminated for absenteesm.
thanks for help pork.
stella, hr

pork1

Stellad: Welcome to the forum, I'm glad to know of others that are finding success and a cheap (FREE) way of validating the I-9 information and having a document trail to support our actions.

Don't forget to go back into the program and close out your case as "resolved" upon terminating your absentee employee. Print that out and attach it to your first verification.

DAC services are good for the DRIVER concerns; however, I have dropped their expense for all other employees and SAVED that money. I still use DAC for other categories like MVR EXPRESS, but for all other employees, we strickly use the SAVE program and we have found 100% effectiveness in the validation of the data on the I-9.

Again welcome and thanks for your post.

PORK

LivindonSouth

"...and we were directed to refer the individual to the DHS/USCIS service office. This morning, I printed off the prepared document signed and executed a suspension of the individual with written instructions to visit the nearest USCIS center for correction of data entry."

PoRk: We live in the same state. Can you tell me where the nearest DHS/USCIS service center office is and how a normal person might find that place or know of its whereabouts or its purpose?

pork1

Good morning Don, do you have a interest because you have joined the SAVE Program?

The program gives out specific information for you to send your mis-matched employees I-9 information for correction of US GOVERNMENT data! In our case the nearest location is the Old immigration offices in Memphis for foreign nationals. If it was a SSN or name or gender or Date of birth mis-match the nearest location for our employees is in Columbus, MS. You would have to go to the program to find your nearest offices that can effect change for your employees with mis-matched I-9 data.

Under the SAVE program a mis-match is considered as an error in the US Government data banks, thus the need to send the individual employee to an appropriate government work site to effect change and correction of our governments errors. This process places the responsibility for effecting change on the shoulders of the employee and relief of the employer from charges of discrimination based on National Origin, whatever!!!

PORK

LivindonSouth

Then why don't you simply call the office what it is...The Social Security Office, instead of all that mumbo jumbo? I had an interest because I have never heard of the office you referenced.



"Life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot."
Charlie Chaplin

pork1

DON: That is because you are no longer in tune with what is happening in the I-9 arena. If you were enrolled like any good professional HR would be with the SAVE program these new terms would not be unfamiliar to you. DHS is the Department of Home Land Security who has the responsibility for the SAVE program.

It is not so simple as "just call it what it is The Social Security Administration", for it is not. The old Immigration and Naturalization department is now a division of DHS and has been absorbed to include their data bank.

The facts are that it is now the immigration status verifer (ISV) in DHS, who is responsible for verifying Immigration and employment eligibility status for the SAVE customers. ISVs are located at the Department of Homeland Security field officies. The data banks of the Old Immigration offices and the SSA are the ones being verified and corrected, when challenged.

But since you are not enrolled you really did not need all the other details that I have now been forced to lay out for you and any others that are not interested in getting I-9s verified for the benefit of our employees who have incorrect data recorded in our government's databanks. Since you have not joined SAVE, you remain out side of the loop of professional HRs every where that are getting I-9s verified and supported with the necessary documentation to send an employee to the right agency for corrections and verification of their right to work in our country!!!

My current employer and I are doing everything we can do to help our government clean-up the mess that allows 11.5 million foreign nationals to live in our country and work in the place of jobs that could be available for US Citizens.

Thanks for the opportunity to spread more information on the SAVE program.

PORK

LivindonSouth

It's painful to learn I am 'not in tune', 'not enrolled', 'outside the loop' and I'm probably not properly 'ramped up' either. Thanks PoRk for continuing to stay on the cutting edge so that I may gather these golden crumbs of wisdom occasionally tossed my way. In the HR Parade, you are indeed Santa with the candy sack and I am merely a child standing at the corner hoping you'll toss me a red and perhaps a yellow striped piece.




"Life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot."
Charlie Chaplin

VS

If I recall correctly, doesn't this new process require verification of electronic signatures??? How do you achieve that? I know that this part of the step precludes me from testing this process and could be a major project to set this up in my company. Thanks.....

pork1

VS: I have now used the system 53 times and I will use the system two more times this afternoon. Once you are signed on through an agreement with DHS/USCIS you will be able to validate the I-9 Data. It does not validate nor are you required to validate the signatures for you have already done that at the time the I-9 is executed. I have seen no mention of validating electronic signatures.

The enrollment process takes an elderly person like myself a couple of hours to work through the system and take and pass a computer driven examination before your company would be able to join the available on-line verification system. There is then an MOU developed and signed before the government will issue you a user ID and password to get into the system. It is not difficult at all and there are staff personnel on an 888 telphone number for your use if needed every step of the way and daily if you need them to help. There is also a tutorial which allows for you to study and help you to create an operations manual for the program.

I highly recommend the program to you; if this old man can get through the system and use the system without fail, then anyone can get on-line and use the system for your advantage. You can use my e-mail in this program for direct communications and questions about SAVE if you wish.

PORK

System

"I know he want return because I recognized him as "Luis Castro", a previous x-employee that quit our employment several years ago to go back to Mexico due to family illiness. This time his documents where a totally different person. I have followed procedures and again the message will get out that we can and do verify I-9 data."

Pork, if you recognized him as someone else and knew that he was providing you a new false identity, why did you procede with him? Couldn't you just say "I recognize you from several years ago when you worked here and you had a totally different identity." ? I'm not trying to challenge you; just wondering why you would not be direct. Maybe my reasoning would get us in trouble, though I don't see how.

x:-/

LivindonSouth

Alert! Alert! This participant is trying to inject something called 'logic' into the hiring process! PoRk will probably tell you that his signed agreement of understanding with the government program will not allow him to use logic or to deal in a forthright manner with applicants who he knows to be frauds and scoundrels. Either that or his retained attorney advised him to just whistle a happy tune and go along with the program.



"Life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot."
Charlie Chaplin

System

Forgive me. I work for a government and I should have learned by now. A couple of other times I used logic and it got me in trouble. Let me see, where are those work rules . . . yes, it's in there somewhere . . . .?

pork1

DON: You know you really should park off on the sidelines and learn something of value, NEW INFORMATION that will and could fit into your professional knowledge bucket. You are beginning to show your "bottomside" up the flag pole and all alone! You will notice that I do not put and disclaimers on my post for they are real and factual for which I take full credit and interest.

PORK

pork1

S MOLL: Our farm sites are located within a 75 mile radius and the job service centers are given the work order to process available applicants to the farm sites for interview and tours. the managers make the determination that one is better than another and is authorized to put them to work and I must then travel to the location for enrollment. Which fits the SAVE program rules and requirements. I can only execute an I-9 verifications with enrolled employees within 3 working days. The individual was already employed and working 1 1/2 days before I got to see him for the first time. Additionally, I recognized his face even with full beard, but the name and documents looked ligit, like before! I did not have the SAVE program when he worked for us before about 3 or 4 years ago. It was not confirmed that my eyes and brain were correct until I got back to the files in our office. Therefore, I was at a remote site and unsure but I was very sure that the SAVE program would most likely find a mis-match of document data. I was not surprized but I felt relieved to know the SAVE system did what it is supposed to do!

Additionally, the fact that he was illegal before may not have been the case this time, thus another reason to proceed ahead and protect my company and me from wrongful discharge or National orgin discrimination charges! Who knows maybe the employee known by a different name this time may come back to us with corrected data and we will be happy to put him back to work.

Thanks for asking, I almost took that very step when enrolling but then I caught myself being less than rational toward this person. So I went the through our SAVE hiring procedures, as stated.

PORK

Crout

This is a question, though it may look more like a statement.....but doesn't it seem odd that you go through that whole procedure, then end up terminating the guy for "attendance?" Are you not allowed to terminate him for failing to produce the legally required documents?

SMace

I was thinking the exact same thing. I believe Pork said he suspended him. How can you suspend someone and then terminate them for not being there? Makes no sense.

pork1

SMACE: We suspend and give the ee 8 federal working days to get to the appropriate office for the contesting process. After 8 days and the ee does not return, then on the 9th day we resolve the case and close the books on this ee for "no call no show" for an attendance violation of company policy. Providing the ee with 8 federal working days is more than sufficient to get the visit started and the corrections made. Also in the supension referral with company documents and the DHS documents allows the employer to document every step of the, way that we are not falsly accussing anyone of providing false documents IAW I-9 procedures. The time limit of 8 days is written in the suspension document and the instruction documents provided to the ee and in Spanish or English or both. Like any suspension if one never returns from any suspension the ee is terminated in our policy and procedures manual.

PORK

atrimble

That makes sense. You hire with good intent, then suspend on a bad SAVE return. So how long does it typically take between hiring and getting the initial documentation to getting the verification/non-match info from SAVE? I think I remember you saying somewhere else that the process is pretty much instantaneous, is that right?

If the employee works a day and a half (or more or less) before getting suspended, how do you report income tax on the time worked if the immigration data is wrong and the employee can't get it corrected?

pork1

ATRIMBLE: For income tax issues that is not our concern for all we know the individual is a real person with real documents and real data that fit the I-9 requirements. We provide the necessary information on name and SSN as normal to the IRS. The taxes are there and the W-2 will be sent to the last known address as normal. However, the additional $ollars just makes the pile grow bigger for their 11.6 million illegals in our country and they never file for income tax refunds because they know their information is false. It is the employer that does not know that the information is false.

PORK

atrimble

I have the same question. I mean, it's my understanding that prospective employees have 48 hours (or some similar small amount of time) to produce the required documentation or they're considered to never have become employees. I make the job offer, then request idenfication documentation and tell applicants that employment is conditional and contingent upon completion of the hiring process, including provision of I-9 documentation, criminal background checks, and drug testing. IF, and only if, these are completed successfully, do they become employees. That way I don't have to worry about termination if nothing is provided.

I've never felt compelled to independently verify an employee's photo identification or other documentation. I'm also a Notary Public with the contingent photo id verification training to "determine" authenticity. We have hired three refugees and one foreign national in the past four years, but not under my watch (last 2 1/2 years), so bringing the federal government into operations for natural citizen employees hasn't been a priority for me.

The way Pork talks about SAVE, it looks like he uses it for EVERY employee. At a couple of hours per new hire, I'd run out of work time just trying to run a legitimate employee's data through the wringer, I'd think.

pork1

ATRIMBLE: I sorry you have not been reading all of my up-dates to SAVE.

It takes an employee that executes an I-9 and provides the necessary documentation to key you to act. It is prcisely the I-9 that I operate from! The documents are an adjunct of the I-9, I do not verify the documents, save verifies the data contained on the documents from which you insert into the appropriate spaces so that you can complete the employer portion. It does not matter whether it is right now or 3 or 5 working days to produce the required documents and data for the completion of the I-9.

Now from the I-9 it takes about 1 minute to get on line and 30 seconds to input the data and immediately the case is either confirmed and matched or there is a nonconfirmed comeback. A tentative nonconfirmed causes you to produce the referral documents and that takes about another 30 seconds. It then takes me an hour to travel to the furtherest work site and personally issue a suspension and get the employee on the road to the appropriate agency with sufficient documentation to give to the agency so they will know why the individual is in their office.

Yes we do 100% of all new hires and that takes about 2 minutes a day out of my time. Except on those days when I have a mis-match (a nonconfirm) and that would take a little more time but believe me it is worth it.

The difference between your situation and mine is that I now have the last 55 new hires 100% checked and documented as meeting the Federal Law and compliance on the I-9 and we are fully protected from any wrongful hiring charges.

Are you absolutely sure your foreign nationals are not illegal foreign nationals? I am absolutely sure 100% that 54 of our new hires are in compliance with the I-9. I am also 100% sure that one ee is currently on a mission to correct the DHS databank which did not match the apparent I-9 documents that he provided in accordance with the execution of the I-9 hiring process. They looked good to me, they were appropriately colored and the data fit the individual, so we put the person to work. After the fact, we have to approach one out of 55 employees and identify that there is an issue with his data (NOT THE DOCUMENT) that is in question.

Pork

pork1

CROUT: I could, but that event will never occur. I do not know that the documents are false or any other term that one might choose. It is precisely the reason for referring the employee to the DHS (ISV) for correction of our governments data bank or to the SSA if it is an error in the SSA data bank. What happens is the individual knows that his I-9 documents are false, but we do not. By going to the referral process the individual chooses to contest the data or not to contest the databank. His documents looked as real as the other foreign national that we hired and put to work on the same day. One was verified on line and the other was nonconfirmed. With the verified we move on and with the nonconfirmed we suspend and sent him to get the data bank corrected to match his documents, which may or may not happen!

PORK

LivindonSouth

It's painful to learn I am 'not in tune', 'not enrolled', 'outside the loop' and I'm probably not properly 'ramped up' either. Thanks PoRk for continuing to stay on the cutting edge so that I may gather these golden crumbs of wisdom occasionally tossed my way. In the HR Parade, you are indeed Santa with the candy sack and I am merely a child standing at the corner hoping you'll toss me a red and perhaps a yellow striped piece. x:-)




"Life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot."
Charlie Chaplin