This is a great testimonial from JM and every word is true. It's all about rewards, or rather 'feeling rewarded'. Reward people by ensuring they feel they are part of your success, reward them by paying them or giving out kudos or putting their names up in lights or providing better equipment and office furniture. Reward them by acknowledging contributions and by allowing them to contribute and by inviting and welcoming their participation and input.
It ain't about the money.
So, Mr. Evergreen, can you do a self assessment and let us know your conclusion as to why people are leaving your business?
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
livindonsouth, You last sentence comes off slightly harsh. Tone is one of those things that does not always come across right on msg boards. :-) Evergreen's 3 people in two months may very well be an anomily......... if turnover is not a common problem, it is just a timing thing. Even though they may not be connected because of close proximity, we all tend to group them together. Yes he needs to evalutate, see if things need tweaking. My $0.02 worth, Balloonman
There's a perfect example of how people react to what they see and hear. I read LivindonSouth's last sentence and thought it was quite nice, a direct opposite of 'harsh.' I too, would like to see evergreen do an assessment and let us know.
Maybe it's the word 'so' that made you conclude it was harsh. Take out that word and see if it suits you. My point is to direct the conversation back to the questioner, to suggest a self assessment. If this is to be a beneficial, learning exercise for him or for any of us, it seems that it would require some introspection and self-examination as an alternative to strangers simply peppering the board with speculation. Otherwise, being viewed as harsh is nothing new for me.
Maybe you would have been more pleased if I had said, "OK John. You've heard from the rest of the class. You have lots of information before you; lots of ideas and suggestions that give you ample food for thought. It would benefit the rest of us if you could possibly give us some of your feedback. Let us know, if you will, what your analysis is. Are there alternatives that perhaps we have overlooked? Thanks for allowing us the opportunity to discuss the issue you are experiencing. Do let us know if we can be of further help." And I could follow that up with an arrangement of flowers and balloons for a proper 'feel-good' approach. x:-)
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
Well the flowers and balloons would be a nice touch! You may actually be right, if you take the So out of the beginning. x:D
Actually does not have to be a feel good approach, just was giving my $0.02 worth. It is a sensitive area, the turnover thing because owners often think it reflects on them, and it may but many times it has nothing to do with them.
Then, my apologies if the 'so' was offensive. Actually our chief Kaizen/Lean Event Trainer and Moderator probably is on his feet speaking to groups in the facility half the time. He always has a room full. One thing I notice he always does to wrap up or conclude or redirect conversation or bring things to a close or summarize....He will sort of clap his hands together below his waist and say, 'SO...we've got the analysis, the week's worth of charting and video, moving forward let's reduce all that to our present state and future state boards and establish timelines and metrics.
I never see it as negative. Perhaps its an unfair perception since I can hear and see him and you can't see and hear me. In that event, maybe you should always give the unseen poster the benefit of the doubt. Just as I doubt we will have a personal assessment posted by Mr. Evergreen. So.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
A most endeared manager here says the word 'so' with two or three syllables. It's "So o oo" with an upswing on the last syllable and his eyebrows raised as if 'is there any more?' It's very disarming. I've seen it work.
Then there's the foot-stomper who click's his heels together and snaps his chin up as if he's Hitler and exclaims "So!" That's more like 'We are finished here.'
Self assesment is what I do on a continuing basis, I have to in order to survive.
Our firm has (now) 10 ee's that work hard and enjoy where they work. 3 of them have stated to me that they will stay here till they retire. One has been here 6 years. When I started this company 11 years ago, I had a dream of an organization that would reward the contributors. I have been sued, issued a claim from eeoc (sex discrim), slandered and gossiped about. In the process I have put in more money and sacrificed more than any ee can comprehend. It has not been the "dream" that starting a business or being and "owner" is believed to be. I feel that each ee I hire, I marry (in a sense). I make a commitment to them to keep the doors open and have a professional, enjoyable place to work. I can take a job somewhere else and drop 50% of my headaches, but this is my choice and my career.
Clarification - Of the 3 that left, one left due to pay and move to a bigger city (this same ee was very negative and complainer), one left due to being polluted by the first about our firm, and the third left for an ungodly amount of money from a world wide corp.
On a postive - Business is good, profits are up, outlooks are great, and we've hired 2 of the replacements and working on the 3rd!
For W.T. (Welcome to Human Resources. I hope you'll wear that hat and lay your union hat aside). All I know of your experience is that you were a union president and now work in HR. I have lived in Mississippi all my life, most of it in the Mississippi Delta. for many years I participated with government entities to recruit industrial prospects. I can tell you for a fact that this state has recruited hundreds and hundreds of industries from the north and they came for three reasons: Cheap wages, to get away from the union shops they had in their northern plants and the tax incentives offered by this state. Most all of those industries are now gone from this state.
All of them that I know anything about left the country and either are now out of business, in Mexico or offshore. For decades and decades the unions in the north have driven industry to the south. The falacy in the thinking was that they could escape the union and live happily ever after on the backs of cheap Southern labor. Often the organizing campaigns followed them South, sometimes they went broke. But, more often than not, as soon as the tax exemptions expired, they left altogether. A lot of them closed down rather than be unionized again. Not a one of them moved back to the north, that's for sure.
"Just remember, companies with unions have prospered and made money and companies with no unions have gone broke." That's your comment, not mine. I have no idea what you base it on. I have worked in union shops and know of many others that went broke. I have worked in non union companies that are 8 billion dollar organizations. Unions do not equal a business of prosperity. That sounds like a good organizing slogan though.
The last time I sat at the negotiation table with the IBEW, the international rep for the union said, in his opening remarks, "Well, we sure don't want to see y'all close down and go to Mexico, but we do want a 23% increase in wages and reduced insurance premiums." What a comment! His demand for a 23% increase and cheaper insurance is precisely why that company will eventually go to Mexico. The owner is Chinese and he sure as hell cannot continue to manufacture television cable in this country with those demands.
And speaking of Wal-Mart, if the union ever is successful in its current organizing attempts, it will certainly destroy that company as well.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
Actually, I am not a newcomer to Human Resources but have worked in that area for many years. However, the fact that I once was a union president has given me some perspective on union issues that I would not have without that experience. You picked up on my statement that union companies have made money and non-union companies have gone broke but you have neglected what came next. The difference is good management. Where managers fall down is when they fail to manage and direct the workforce and let unions do so. Unions are not good at that function and not structured to do it well. The industries cited that went south and then went off shore were seeking to make more money. Americans will not be able to compete with third world wages and the living conditions these wages necessitate whether union or non-union. The companies are looking at the bottom line only. That is why companies spent their employee loyalty (an intangible asset) in rounds of downsizing and right sizing in order to improve their bottom line that quarter or that year. This thread started regarding employee loyalty. The new generation of workers was watching this whole process and they learned their lesson. While grand dad might have waited for the promotion for years because he would always have a job, junior wants the money and promotion now. He is afraid the employer will pay him with promises and downsize him when the promise comes due. Loyalty and promises are intertwined. Loyalty is always balanced by various promies whether spoken or unspoken. Companies and unions have broken enough promises so that promises are not believed anymore. Loss of loyalty is not restricted to employers. Employees are often not as loyal to their unions as were former generations. They want performance now or they are willing to change leadership.
What amazes me is the number of unions down here in industries like catfish, chicken processing, unskilled labor that get voted in and continue to survive and the employees pay dues and get absolutely nothing in exchange. The jobs are the lowest paid in the South. The employees would be better off using union dues to go to the movies once a month.
In 1985 I appeared on a television panel in Greenville, Mississippi to talk about the workforce. I remember saying that within 10 miles of the microphone the local labor force is making the only Schwinn bicycles manufactured anywhere in the world, the only line of La-Z-Boy case goods (office furniture), zero tolerance brass tubing for musical instruments and other applications, Boeing Military Airplane Company had announced last week their intention to come to town and occupy half the closed air base, Vlasic Pickle had their largest and most successful operation in our town, our workforce was producing state of the art five-color boxing products at Mebane Packaging and Comet Rice was processing and packaging more rice than the barges could haul up and down the Mississippi River.
Today, not a damned one of those industries is still there. They all moved away. Some of them came to the Delta to escape unions. All of them came to find cheaper labor and state give-aways. All of them moved away and some off-shore, like Schwinn who had escaped the unions of Chicago to come here. Not a single one of these operations ever had an organizing campaign.
The work force was not the problem. We proved we could pull the wagon if someone would just load it.
Now we have legalized gambling, allowed anywhere there is navigable water (how stupid). So, all the cities along the MS River have casinos, which is a terrible solution to unemployment.
Comments
It ain't about the money.
So, Mr. Evergreen, can you do a self assessment and let us know your conclusion as to why people are leaving your business?
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
You last sentence comes off slightly harsh. Tone is one of those things that does not always come across right on msg boards. :-) Evergreen's 3 people in two months may very well be an anomily......... if turnover is not a common problem, it is just a timing thing. Even though they may not be connected because of close proximity, we all tend to group them together.
Yes he needs to evalutate, see if things need tweaking.
My $0.02 worth,
Balloonman
There's a perfect example of how people react to what they see and hear. I read LivindonSouth's last sentence and thought it was quite nice, a direct opposite of 'harsh.' I too, would like to see evergreen do an assessment and let us know.
Maybe you would have been more pleased if I had said, "OK John. You've heard from the rest of the class. You have lots of information before you; lots of ideas and suggestions that give you ample food for thought. It would benefit the rest of us if you could possibly give us some of your feedback. Let us know, if you will, what your analysis is. Are there alternatives that perhaps we have overlooked? Thanks for allowing us the opportunity to discuss the issue you are experiencing. Do let us know if we can be of further help." And I could follow that up with an arrangement of flowers and balloons for a proper 'feel-good' approach. x:-)
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
Actually does not have to be a feel good approach, just was giving my $0.02 worth. It is a sensitive area, the turnover thing because owners often think it reflects on them, and it may but many times it has nothing to do with them.
My $0.02 worth.......
Balloonman
I never see it as negative. Perhaps its an unfair perception since I can hear and see him and you can't see and hear me. In that event, maybe you should always give the unseen poster the benefit of the doubt. Just as I doubt we will have a personal assessment posted by Mr. Evergreen. So.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
Then there's the foot-stomper who click's his heels together and snaps his chin up as if he's Hitler and exclaims "So!" That's more like 'We are finished here.'
Self assesment is what I do on a continuing basis, I have to in order to survive.
Our firm has (now) 10 ee's that work hard and enjoy where they work. 3 of them have stated to me that they will stay here till they retire. One has been here 6 years. When I started this company 11 years ago, I had a dream of an organization that would reward the contributors. I have been sued, issued a claim from eeoc (sex discrim), slandered and gossiped about. In the process I have put in more money and sacrificed more than any ee can comprehend. It has not been the "dream" that starting a business or being and "owner" is believed to be. I feel that each ee I hire, I marry (in a sense). I make a commitment to them to keep the doors open and have a professional, enjoyable place to work. I can take a job somewhere else and drop 50% of my headaches, but this is my choice and my career.
Clarification - Of the 3 that left, one left due to pay and move to a bigger city (this same ee was very negative and complainer), one left due to being polluted by the first about our firm, and the third left for an ungodly amount of money from a world wide corp.
On a postive - Business is good, profits are up, outlooks are great, and we've hired 2 of the replacements and working on the 3rd!
All of them that I know anything about left the country and either are now out of business, in Mexico or offshore. For decades and decades the unions in the north have driven industry to the south. The falacy in the thinking was that they could escape the union and live happily ever after on the backs of cheap Southern labor. Often the organizing campaigns followed them South, sometimes they went broke. But, more often than not, as soon as the tax exemptions expired, they left altogether. A lot of them closed down rather than be unionized again. Not a one of them moved back to the north, that's for sure.
"Just remember, companies with unions have prospered and made money and companies with no unions have gone broke." That's your comment, not mine. I have no idea what you base it on. I have worked in union shops and know of many others that went broke. I have worked in non union companies that are 8 billion dollar organizations. Unions do not equal a business of prosperity. That sounds like a good organizing slogan though.
The last time I sat at the negotiation table with the IBEW, the international rep for the union said, in his opening remarks, "Well, we sure don't want to see y'all close down and go to Mexico, but we do want a 23% increase in wages and reduced insurance premiums." What a comment! His demand for a 23% increase and cheaper insurance is precisely why that company will eventually go to Mexico. The owner is Chinese and he sure as hell cannot continue to manufacture television cable in this country with those demands.
And speaking of Wal-Mart, if the union ever is successful in its current organizing attempts, it will certainly destroy that company as well.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
In 1985 I appeared on a television panel in Greenville, Mississippi to talk about the workforce. I remember saying that within 10 miles of the microphone the local labor force is making the only Schwinn bicycles manufactured anywhere in the world, the only line of La-Z-Boy case goods (office furniture), zero tolerance brass tubing for musical instruments and other applications, Boeing Military Airplane Company had announced last week their intention to come to town and occupy half the closed air base, Vlasic Pickle had their largest and most successful operation in our town, our workforce was producing state of the art five-color boxing products at Mebane Packaging and Comet Rice was processing and packaging more rice than the barges could haul up and down the Mississippi River.
Today, not a damned one of those industries is still there. They all moved away. Some of them came to the Delta to escape unions. All of them came to find cheaper labor and state give-aways. All of them moved away and some off-shore, like Schwinn who had escaped the unions of Chicago to come here. Not a single one of these operations ever had an organizing campaign.
The work force was not the problem. We proved we could pull the wagon if someone would just load it.
Now we have legalized gambling, allowed anywhere there is navigable water (how stupid). So, all the cities along the MS River have casinos, which is a terrible solution to unemployment.
I forgot the question.