Potential Employee

We have an applicant who has a work permit for another year . . . what are the complications/benefits, etc of hiring? What type of questions should I ask, what are the possibilties of this applicant getting a full work permit.

Thank you!

Comments

  • 21 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • Are you talking about a minor with a work permit or are talking about a fOrEiGn NATIONAL with some sort of work document? Please clarify.

    Gene
  • This is a foreign national with a work permit that is good for 1 more year.
  • I'd be mighty leary. Most work permits are not portable, meaning they cannot take one and shop it around for an employer to bite. My advice, steer clear. Work permits typically are job specific, site specific, employer specific rather than a ticket to hunt for a job.




    Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
  • JCInfo: Welcome to the forum!

    Apparantly, you have not taken the opportunity to check out the SAVE Program that is available for you to verify the accuracy of the data in the Department of Homeland Security USCIS/SSA data banks. There is much discussion on this forum about the on-line verification of work permits and SSN. I joined the government's verification system and now have had 25 verifications in a row and documented by the DHS SAVE PROGRAM as valid and authorized to work in our company and our country. There has only been one submitted for an ee that was not a US Citizen; the program had me refer the individual with the specific document (THE WORK PERMIT)to USCIS for correction of, obviously, bad data in the data bank.

    I suspended the ee from work with the formal letter to the DHS/USCIS and gave him 8 working days to initiate the correction procedures. Guess what, he did not return and the data bank still has bad data, which is different from the actual ID card. I bet this may be the same guy or girl.

    My e-mail is open if you choose to ask about more information on the SAVE PROGRAM.

    Your base question revealed that you have a Work Permit identifying an idividual that is permitted to work in our country until the expiration date! If you are comfortable with looking at documents and enrolling the potential employee using the documents he presented then send him/her on to work. My first question is was the individual offered a job? Are doing the paperwork or are you concerned because there was no offer and you were presented the ID information and want to know about the expiration date and impact? If the work permit was verified or the assigned SSN verified, then I would send the ee onto work with the understanding he/she must get the card renewed and back to you before the expiration date.

    You should not be making job offers to indivduals based on I-9 information!

    I look forward to watching this thread develop.

    PORK


  • PORK

    you're just trying to get everyone all worked up and have this thread hijacked!!!x0:)



    :DD


  • C'mon pOrK! If you cannot answer the friggin' question without a tirade on SAVE then don't even bother answering at all. Nowhere in the post did I see the question about verifying anything. Give me a break.

    If you want to plug SAVE willy nilly, then at least have the common courtesy to go to HR DE HAR HAR and do it somewhere where at least it will be more benign.

    You're like my six year old son. I give him enough rope and he steps on his own you-know-what.


    Gene

    Note to reader:

    If you find this offensive, abrasive or otherwise, please contact MLS.

    Note to MLS:

    Before you accuse me of hijacking threads via private email to other subscribers (didn't think I knew, did you you dirty rats?) notice who hijacked and posted off-topic. Do us all a favor and police this better.


  • TN HR: I have not HI-JACKED anything, until the reader allows his/her thoughts to let my words bother them/you so badly that they/you are compelled to junp up an accuse someone of HI-JACKING a particular thread, as you have just done. You are the one who has put the idea that my thoughts and communication to the original poster are off base and off topic. So get off of your HIGH HORSE and back onto the ground of reality. The poster has a "work permit in her hand/arena" and her/his concerns allow me to believe that her issues can easily be solved, if she knows about and uses, the SAVE PROGRAM. She/he is a new posting member of our professional group and I noted that she might need some information more than she had at the time she placed the post. Additionally, I tried to send the poster a personal e-mail just so that I would not cause any pain. I believe that you will notice that I have not taken the forum members time to up-date on the save program although I have had a continuous success of the verification of I-9 data. I am 1000% happier with the current program over what the poster obviously has to take care of her concerns for I-9 data.

    HRHero staff thanks again for this great forum and the ability to work the airways for good HR informatioooooooooooon on all HR issues.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-12-05 AT 04:40PM (CST)[/font][br][br]DENISEE: Oh Boy, I bet you just woke up TN HR!

    Yep, there he is again with the HI-JACKING business.

    I wonder how long he will go on about my HI-JACKING something. One can only HI-JACK when one has someone of interest to counter a Blog! I have spent the last two weeks conducting a wrong doing investigation into our time clock system of recording time. The 2rd manager has been fired and one labor level employee, there will be more. I am ready for a brew, maybe ole TN HR will run me down a "Black label Jack" for my soul.

    Ya'll have a nice day. now if this runs on and on that would be HI-JACKING and getting off the subject.

    PORK

    TN HR can't you at least spell my name right, either all caps so I can hear or just the first letter P and ork in lower case would be more respectful, if you realyy care.
  • PoRk: I was involved with the implementation and kickoff of the I-9 program. If I recall, an employer is prohibited from initiating an I-9 form or attempting to validate one's documents until AFTER an offer of employment has been extended and the employer is gathering and processing the various hire-in, signup documents. Only then can an employer go about the process of validation. If I understood you correctly, you recommended that the employer posing this question take the applicant's permit in hand and run it through the process of the SAVE program to determine its authenticity.

    Do you want to rethink that advice or did the government give you some sort of special dispensation to violate the law?




    Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
  • JCinfo, let me try to get back on topic and answer your question now that you were able to provide a little more information.

    I will use the term "work permit" to mean one of various visas and/or a Temporary Employment Authorization. If the individual in question has a visa, then most likely, as Don stated, it is not portable. Work visas are usually issued to an individual in conjunction with a sponsoring employer and they are only good for employment with that employer. Having said that, it is possible to transfer a visa and assume sponsorship. This is, however, a lengthy, expensive and resource-consuming task.

    If the person has a Temporary Employment Authorization in the form of an I-688A card, then this is a whole different story. This individual is free to seek employment virtually anywhere. There is no sponsorship, no fees, no nothing. Please note that these documents are very common among immigrants who are seeking permanent residency. They are often given these work documents while their permanent residence applications get processed. It is not uncommon in certain cases for these individuals to get 1 year renewals especially if they are on the tail end of their permanent residency process. I have about 6 or 7 right who just went to Memphis to get an additional 1 year extension because of the backlog in processing their permanent residence. Ninety-nine percent of the time they are given extensions. The only time I have seen one denied is in the case of an individual, who through a random audit at extension time, was found to have commited (and convicted of) a felony for domestic battery. He never made it out of the Memphis office. He was detained and processed for deportation. The rationale is that he would have never been granted permanent residency nor naturalization with that on his record anyway.

    If your candidate has an I-688A card, I would feel comfortable hiring. As a matter of fact, the law is very clear in that you cannot discrimnate based solely on a future expiration date of a document. Having said that, I would also reccomend against doing any sort of "checks" or "databank matches" of any sort until after you have extended an offer. Follow your standard hiring practices in terms of verifying I-9 documents and such.

    Good luck. I hope this was helpful.

    Gene
  • Gene,
    Thanks so much for the information . . . I'll try to find out exactly what this applicant has in hand and go from there.
    JC
  • Gene, just wanted to commend you on your answer. Very nice job of a thorough, consice, applicable answer. This is the type of response that assists others. I couldn't have said it better myself.
    E Wart
  • Don: So was I involved with the implementation of the I-9 program! You need to re-read my post. Apparently, the concerned HR has an ID (work permit)document in her/his possession and is in processing the employee, which by the way is most "portable to any employer" regardless of the expiration date. We are required to make the offer of employment first and in the process of completing the I-9 form (POST OFFER OR EVEN POST ACCOMPLISHING WORK, and WITHIN THE THREE DAY LIMIT OF THE HIRE DATE). The SAVE PROGRAM will not allow for a pre-examination of the documents for verification prior to the hire date. A fact that you would not realize without having joined the Federal Government in the verification of present document information through the SAVE PROGRAM. Because I know and use the SAVE PROGRAM with absolute effectiveness, I would not do as your question of my advice implicates.

    Good morning to all in this Blessed Country and our special "world of work".

    PORK
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-13-05 AT 09:05AM (CST)[/font][br][br]PoRk: What I meant by being "involved with the implementation and kickoff of the I-9 program" was being a part of the team that made eleven presentations in various communities in this state and two others, each attended by employer groups and employer representatives and representatives of the government INS staff. Not meaning to impugn your statement that you too were there, what I meant was we actually trained people in the requirements of the I-9 program as well as the forms and ID fraud, etc. If you were there, you went undetected.

    My main point, however, is that you always roll out this SAVE program and imply that an employer can use the mechanisms of that program to solve everything from coke spilled in the breakroom to categorizing foreign nationals by the hue of their complexion. Please wait for a post on that program to unleash that on us over and over.

    Regardless of SAVE, it remains a fact that an employer cannot delve into any person's continuing right to work or seek work or apply for work or move freely about the country based on some wopsided view of when a certain document expires or whether they have a certain document or how legitimate you think it is if they do have one. That type of analysis can only come at the point of hire. All you may do pre-hire is ask on your application if the applicant is legally authorized to work in the United States. I see that you are beginning to pick up on that fact in your last post. Congratulations. You are making progress in YOuR WorLD of WoRk.




    Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-13-05 AT 11:30AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Don: Thanks for your well put words, thanks for the education that you were a part of the implementation of the worst Federal Government program ever divised and placed on the backs of all employers everywhere. The I-9 Program for which you have now established and admitted to have been going around the country teaching employers about how to enroll employees who could be an illegal alien for which we had no way, I say again NO WAY to validate the information presented on the I-9 Form. It was precisly the program for which I early on voiced my concerns, that it is was a flawed and useless system for the intended purpose of validating who had a right to be in our country and hired as a employee.

    After 11.6 million illegal foreign workers had been identified as in our country and "working", was it that the Federal Government put together the one piece of the I-9 package. The ability to validate the information was missing for we employers. Finally,the government opened the SAVE Program, which government agencies have been able to use very successfully for several years, to all employers everywhere and for no charge.

    E-Wart, TN HR's words are also right on, until he makes the statements or expresses dis-satisfaction with the SAVE Program.

    He has not put the first bit of information of fact forward to the forum readers, who might choose to follow his lead and walk away from many available answers to employer concerns over the "work permit". HR legal concerns to "get it right the first time without concerns" as posted by the originator of this post/thread, is now available.

    While the SAVE PROGRAM will not make a "chocolate milk shake or SCRAPE up HOG MANURE", as Don likes to express on my behalf, it will help this company and all companies to cure the ills that we experience everyday with the old I-9 system and procedures.

    I look forward to meeting each and everyone of you as I travel this great land talking about and training others on the use and value of the New I-9 system. I have been given great credit for the New I-9 system by some of our forum subscribers; I thank you for that and I thank the President for his "potential callup of me into service for the education of all employers on the new I-9 and how to use the on-line verification of Work Permit Data". December 31, 2005 is not really that far away, it will be great seeing you and placing a face with the HRhero Forum names.

    By the way Don,in those days, I was a silent type of HR participant, no wonder you did not see or hear of me. I have travelled many miles since those days, but always carrying the burden of the Old Form I-9 and its procedures.

    ENOUGH on this for now.

    PORK
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-13-05 AT 03:13PM (CST)[/font][br][br]"I thank you for that and I thank the President for his "potential callup of me into service for the education of all employers on the new I-9 and how to use the on-line verification of Work Permit Data".

    PoRk: Nice acceptance speech. Please let me know when the Senate Confirmation Hearing will be on C-Span. I'd like to watch to celebrate your callup confirmation. Again, congratulations and all my best.

    By the way PoRk; the I-9 program did what it intended to do. It gave employers a method, although not perfect, to try to validate a person's right to work before putting them on the job. It was not the fault of the government that some came with fraudulent documents. Nor was it anticipated that so many employers, including the pork processing industry, would knowingly violate the law. The program and process were far from perfect. But, you fail to realize; it is the porous borders of this country, not the I-9 process that has resulted in millions of illegals within.

    I'm donating my lime-green leisure suit for you to travel the country in.

    By the way: I have not decided which, but I will either quit, retire or commit suicide before I will allow you on the property to train anyone here in anything.


    Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
  • Don: It did not do what it intended to do. The I-9 system was the first effort to say to the world and individuals that one should not come across our borders for employment because we have put XXX rules in place and you will be caught and sent home. You are right no one dreamed that the numbers would come across and be employed. You should not be so quick to acuse the PORK Industry of knowingly hiring any foreign national inspite of the law. We complied with every facet of the I-9 procedures, which you taught us to do; additionally,we made copies of the apparantly good records and put these find people to work. We have even complied with the expiration dates and paid vacation checks to our employees that had to return home for a few weeks and return with an up-dated apparantly good "work permits".

    Since becoming involved with the NEW I-9 procedures and agreement with DHS, this company has stopped the foreign workers from coming to our door, by simply letting the community that our company is capable of verifiying and validating any document presented. They no longer come and this reason alone is going to clean up the illegal work force without concern for EEOC, ATTORNEYS, or any other issue that might or use to arrive by way of the I-9 issues.

    Again thanks for your hard work and diligent effort to get me trained right and to follow your every instruction. I was there, but with a different company with retail stores all over the south 527 to be exact, and concerned everyday for the arrival of our wonder border patrol to check our employees working as foreign nationals. We did it right and never lost any employees to bad documents. So you did good and I have taken your training with me through 5 other companies and we are still doing it right and without worry.

    PORK
  • "You should not be so quick to acuse the PORK Industry of knowingly hiring any foreign national inspite of the law."

    I base that on your comment to me in an earlier email that the owner of your company had instructed you to 'leave the illegals alone' until the dust settles to see if they will get amnesty. But, it is a well published and well known fact that the hog industry, poultry, catfish and meat processing in general have led the country in the numbers of illegals discovered, rounded up and hauled away. Your industry (animal husbandry, meat processing and agricultural food processing) also leads the nation in employers being fined for knowingly using illegals. These are facts that cannot be disputed, not my opinion. Nor is this a personal attack on you or your employer. Just the facts PoRk, just the facts.




    Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-14-05 AT 02:29PM (CST)[/font][br][br]DON: I do know that any one of the listed industries hired illegals knowing they were illegal. They did like you instructed us to do: accept the application, interview, make an offer, have an acceptance of the offer, now put to work or start the enrollment process. This last step can come before or after one puts the ee into the roll of working. My previous discussions admitted to having illegals on our staff "who have applied for a change in status for which we still wait on our Department of labor/Homeland Security to change their status under the Clinton Administration Amnesty Program. We only have 5 remaining of the original 15. 10 have left us and will never again return for re-hire until they have good documents, which I can now verify and get permission from USCIS to hire within seconds of submitting their I-9 Form information. My time is better spent on important things rather than worrying any more about whether I am hiring and putting to work good quality US Citizens and Foreign Nationals who are authorized to be here. As long as I can read the documents provided by 100% of our new hires (Foreign Nationals or US Citizens, I can get it right the first time and put the I-9 issues to bed. We are moving forward and no longer chasing "hog tails" like it was under the old I-9 Program.

    PORK
  • "Illegals who have applied for a change in status"? What the hell kind of law are you observing? There is no such thing as legally allowing an illegal to apply for a change of status under some imaginary Clinton program. PoRk. You are in violation of federal law. This may get your tin badge taken away.




    Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
  • DON: There was most certainly an amnesty program upon which millions of illegals with apparantly good documents confessed that their documents were false and applied for a change in status. President Clinton put it together to get the Hispanic vote for the Democrats. President Bush and Fox expressed that the Amnesty Program would be applied for all who confessed. We still wait for a final solution to our 5 Hispanic employees who are still with us. EEOC supported the the confessed employees and we were directed not to take adverse action toward these employees. Time has passed and you can bet I have every detailed letter on these individuals from our state congressnal deligation, to the regional Director of the Department of labor. These 5 have a total of 6 US Citizens as members of their family. They pay their SS and federal and state taxes just like you and I, but they are never able to seek a refund of the over payment.

    Breaking the law, I don't think so, using the law and the discrimination laws based on National Origins for the benefit of these Hispanic employees, may be the case. Sometimes we are caught between "a rock and a hard place", but when one follows the rules and guidelines of the government things seem to always work out for the best. I hope these 5 Hispanic families with their US Citizen children get their lives in order help our country to become an even greater nation.

    PORK
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