SSA/Homeland Security Verification Process
windjam
31 Posts
To anyone who has or is participating in the Basic Employment Verification Program:
We are considering our participation and have read all the initial material and are ready to go through the web tutorial. Before we spend any more time, we would like to know the good, the bad and the ugly on this program. Is it worth it or more headache than it is worth? In our business, we typically hire one day and put to work the following day so we don't have any lead time if we run into roadblocks. Will this save us in the I-9 area? Have you had any problems requiring only picture ID from List B? What can you advise us based on your experience?
Thanks for being there for us who are really payroll administrators "forced" into HR functions!
We are considering our participation and have read all the initial material and are ready to go through the web tutorial. Before we spend any more time, we would like to know the good, the bad and the ugly on this program. Is it worth it or more headache than it is worth? In our business, we typically hire one day and put to work the following day so we don't have any lead time if we run into roadblocks. Will this save us in the I-9 area? Have you had any problems requiring only picture ID from List B? What can you advise us based on your experience?
Thanks for being there for us who are really payroll administrators "forced" into HR functions!
Comments
I have found the Nebraska New Hire website to be a snap to use. I have people start anywhere from one day to a couple of weeks or more after accepting an offer, and I "orientate" within three days of start (usually, and we have 20 days to submit the info on the site from DOH).
Your program sounds a little different from ours (is that possible? I'm going to check a little closer tomorrow) - I am not aware that we must have a photo ID for list B. Also, I still have people complete I-9s, copy their documents, and retain them in a file separate from the personnel files.
Anyway, I highly recommend the program I use. I've only had to call tech support once, and talked to a very nice, very helpful fellow. I'm going to take another look and make sure we're on the same page, but I think it's a great deal.
(edit) I can't imagine any government process being 'a great deal'.
For those that care, I pasted in the link to the Nebraska web site. For those that don't:
I log on, enter the employee(s) data (SSN, name, DOH, DOB, and address). I hit "finished entering", check the data, and confirm it. I print one page, put it in their file, and I'm done.
At my previous job, I faxed W4s. I seem to have a magnetic personality (hahaha) that causes fax machines to hiccup, so I never really knew what happened on the other side. This is easy; I just use the info from the I9, and I'm done.
Again, I'm not thoroughly 100% sure we're talking about the same thing, but it appears to be.
We are required to notify the State (usually, but can do one place for all states if you want) of all new hires. This was implemented back in 1993, I believe, as the "New Hire Reporting" and has to do with the Child Support Enforcement. It has nothing to do with verification of SS numbers. You just tell the state when a person is hired, their address and where payroll corresondence can be sent. Used to have to fax in the W-4's but most states now have a web site which makes this reporting much easier.
E Wart
To add a note to Gene's comments - fireworks is right! :>) I just typed a wonderful piece detailing my experience coordinating a mission in Mexico, but I thought it was a bit early in the thread for soapboxing. If anyone is interested, I can e-mail my "dissertation" to you. x;-)
In a nutshell, it allows you verify the employment eligibility of aliens. Contrary to popular belief, it does not change or eliminate I9 requirements.
Until it becomes mandatory I 'll pass.
Gene
Sorry....it's probably better to search the HrHero archives under "SSA Verification." I just looked this up. I didn't see S.A.V.E. but the SSA is operating a pilot program for select companies to supply "instant" verification. "Instant" is government code for "the next day," which to be fair, is an improvement over the current system.
I believe that we are writing about two different requirements. Our state also has a requirment to report all employees hired on a seperate form. Effective October 1, 1997, all Mississippi Employers are required to report certain information about employees who have been newly hired, or have returned to work. This has absolutely nothing to do with the I-9 Federal requirement. This has absolutely nothing to do with illegal aliens. It does have everything to do with getting a handle on the employed persons in our state. It is required for me to explain the use of the information, which is for the State to enter the new hire information into their data bank and any Department of Government that has access to this data can search the data bank and get the base information they might need inorder to locate someone. All new hires or rehire's data are provided, there is no signature required and no picture ID's required. Our forms are sent to a data processor located in Cleveland, Ohio at one time, now it is sent to a TN contractor.
Thanks for the PLUG CROUT. The SSA test program for on-line verification of ssn is in its final stages of briefings and "twicks to the system", the project manager will let me know when it will go nation wide. This does not verify the "Work Permit", but it will verify the SSN, THE SPELLING OF ONE'S NAME ASSIGNED TO THE SSN, THE BIRTHDATE OF THIS INDIVIDUAL, AND FINALLY THE GENDER OF THIS PERSON.
I have recommended to the US Government to go nation wide, as soon as possible, with the SSN verification program.
I believe the federal government Home Land Security, is waiting to see what our govenment will do about the 11 million illegal foreign workers currently employed. Last week the Senate passed a temporary worker bill. I have not heard what the "House" will do, but the lobbist for the small business employers are working on them. There may be a "Temporary Worker bill Law" out soon, which will tell everyone how to check the work force for illegal immigrants, how to get them registered, and when to send them back across the border. This test "on-line verification" has helped to clean-up the records of our employees that differ between the IRS and the SSA and the individual's ID information. It has also stopped the illegal foreign worker from getting employed into our company. They know we check so they don't even apply anymore! It has cleaned up 100% of the US Citizen data employed with our company. There were about 15 employees that had bad data in the federal systems, they were identified and sent to the SSA for resolution. Once resolved with the SSA we then were able to process changes to W-2/4 data.
As soon as SSA tells me, I have agreed to publish the word on this FORUM. You will love this federal government program, it works and it takes about 5 minutes to enter the program and get out with the information verified or rejected. It even now tells you why the entry was rejected. Any rejection we give to the concerned person and suspend them from work until they get the issue resolved. Resolving the issues takes a little time due to the waiting period to get to a counselor in the SSA, but only about 5 minutes after they sit down with a counselor. The "illegal alien" (foreign national) sent to the SSA for resolution of mismatch, simply never comes back; a "no call / no show" happens and they are quickly terminated.
Everyone should hold on to your chair or take the wheels off, if the congress does not get the bill passed, which will provide some protection of the current illegal worker. Can you just imagine 11 million illegal workers told on the July 1, 2005 that they are no longer wlcome and they must go home. Hold onto your retirement plan also because the economy is going to take a major hit, some may go hungry due to the "closed" eating establishments and the rotting food products that go un harvested. The sucking noise and and feeling of the winds to the South from the North will be large and a drain on everything.
I hope this clears up the issues on the two requirments for reporting new hires and I-9. I am not aware of any cost associated with either of these programs. we collect the information and process it to the appropriate data input stations, and then make the appropriate entrys into our personnel systems.
PORK
About two years ago, my company did a SS# check on all employees and ended up with 200 illegal aliens identified. We termed these individuals, but what shocked me the most was the fact that SS Administration did not care that these illegals were identified. I asked if they were going to deport them. SS said "no", it wasn't their concern. They only care if a person has a proper SS#. So with this new program, who will take responsibility to "deport" illegal aliens. Some of those individuals we termed told us that they will just buy another SS# (some buy from lawyers)and go to another company. Some even told us how they get into the country. One hopped a plane, flew into Miami, got off the plane and got a job. I'm all for helping those in need, but I want to see it done "right".
Welcome to the Forum! You're right. They don't and shouldn't care. It is not their responsibility to enforce immigration laws. Yes, the ee's you termed will probably go buy another SSN (well, now they buy identities because the old bogus SSN trick doesn't work anymore). As far as the guy that took a flight to Miami and hopped off the plane, anyone can do that and enter the country legally on a tourist visa.
I'm amazed at the state of shock so many people are in over the whole illegal/undocumented epidemic. It's an inoperable cancer. How do you propose anyone tackle an 11 million person problem?
The very same people who denounce it are the same people who are not willing to do pay the higher costs of consumer goods and services associated with the higher wages required by a legal workforce.
What we need desperately in this country is some sort of amnesty/guest worker program (or whatever other cutesy PC term you want to use). Allow these individuals to come out of the underground, bring their families over and stop the mass exodus of dollars to Mexico.
Let's lay all the cards on the table here. Your industry, much like mine, depends on this source of labor to survive. 3PL is not exactly a high profit margin industry. You boot 200 out one door, you still have another 200 in who are flying under the radar.
Stick around this thread long enough, the fireworks show will be worth at least the price of admission
Gene
Thanks for your comments! And I agree with you! I do understand SS Admin's role. I was shocked that they didn't "speak" with the Justice Dept.(or whatever appropriate dept.)so that the Justice Dept. would be aware so that they could address. If one does not understand what contributes to the problem, then you cannot fix the problem! There again, maybe I shouldn't be shocked that the different Govt. groups do not communicate! Gee, much like our own issues, huh!!
This illegal immigration issue is too big for anyone to solve overnight. I certainly do not have the answers, but I have ideas! I care about these issues (for our country as well as for the people). I would like to sink my teeth into it!
And you are right, my industry depends on these workers as well. I already bought my admission ticket, and I have a feeling it will be a long show!! I don't think I will be disappointed!!!
VS
Quit trying to fool yourself or anyone else. Your industry, just like mine depends on the undocumented laborer to survive. I've been around the food industry long enough to know this. I spoke to a Prestage GM out of a plant in the Carolinas who confirmed this.
Gene
My post does not orient toward any political side one way or the other. It is fact, as you have also stated (11 MILLION), and our government does not know what they want to do. I am for the straightening out of the mess with illegal foreign nationals. I have written both senators for our state, I have written President Bush, I have written my House of representative, one of the answers to the issue is IDENTIFY THE REAL SIZE OF THE ISSUE, REGISTER THE ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONAL, GIVE THEM A TEMPORARY 2 YEAR ASSIGNMENT IN THEIR PRESENT COMPANY. THEN, ALLOW THEM TO GO BACK HOME AND REAPPLY FOR THE RIGHT TO RETURN TO A POSITION THAT MIGHT BE OPEN.
The SSA on-line verification of the documentation process is key to bringing the NOMAD life of the illegal foreign national to an end, it is key to the identification and positive action to clean up the mess.
Please explain you unfavorable words above!!!
PORK
My words are not unfavorable. I simply speak the facts. You work overtime at discrediting the NOMADS, as you like to call them, make sidebar remarks as to somehow regard them as parasites, discriminately lump anyone with a SSN mismatch as "illegal" and somehow paint an overall picture that your industry is head and shoulders above everyone else in regards to employing illegals.
I have a shocking revelation for you. This may come as a real news flash. While I was stationed at Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, NC, I volunteered a few months for catholic Charities in Clinton, NC. You may know Clinton as your corporate home. The mecca of the swine industry.
Back to my volunteer time. My job was to assist the HR folks at the pork plants communicate with their hispanic employees and help supervisors get checks to the right people because they knew them by their legal names, yet the checks were made out to the assumed identity.
Anyway, what all this means is that your industry, like mine, thrives on this labor pool. We don't discriminate against them, pair fair wages, offer good benefits, it's just that our direct labor is lower than what the average natives will work for under the same conditions.
You remind me of the televangelist who preaches every night on TV about the evils of comitting sins of the flesh and later gets caught smoking crack in the company of a teenage prostitute in the seedy part of town.
I have been on the forum talking about the facts and have been accused by some of our members as one going straight to jail for harboring illegals. Our illegals were presented to us by the Bill Clinton Amnesty Program. A program in which the procedures were already in place but doomed to fail in the protection of the illegal aliens that came forward and confessed.
The DEMOCRATIC Amnesty Program used the process of the "immigrant hired from abroad" system. Problem was and is today, there is a requirement to advertise locally and prove that there is no US Citizen available to fill the advertised position, which was filled by our employee who were legal before they confessed to being illegal. If we advertised, we would get any number of responses because we start at $7.00 and hour. Words that you read now are words of double faced government speakers that hold out a carrot and then take it away with the admiistrative BS. At the time, we had 15 Hispanic labor employees in the Mississippi Division. We are down to 5 the others have gone to places unknown, possibly to your jobs. Living the life of a NOMAD in our country. There is nothing demeaning about the NOMAD's life, it is just very hard to do and stay with good mind.
The illegal foreign national no longer comes to our doors for jobs; they know we check the documents. We have now hired this year 3 new Hispanic workers, who are legal and validated.
Someday maybe you'll get to walk in my boots, with your employees who are illegal but appear to be legal, because I have personally been an advocate for the NOMAD foreign national to have a true method of finding a rightful identify deserving of their "great working ability" and their belief in our system of life on this earth.
PORK
Should I and others working this issue for the NOMADs and their employers fail to secure a logical solution, then don't be surprised when the crazy rush is on to leave by our illegal foreign national workers. Those with hundreds will be badly hurt and damaged. If I go to jail because I have been working to help, I would hope that someone who cares will come to vouch that PORK meant well.
My and other advocates have worked hard at trying to make sure our political voices are aware of the small business issues and problems. A temporary work permit without a provision for taking care of the presently employed identified illegal foreign national will be a disaster to our economy and the NOMADS and their children who in many cases are US Citizens. One of our female employees has two young boys and a baby on the way. I hope to make her life better and her children safer.
I except your apology for mis understanding my motives and efforts. Just maybe you might have a happier day and a more Blessed day at work because I have done the best that I could to be up front and honest about both sides of the coin.
PORK
Now that you have done such a good job, and I mean this sincerely, of explaining yourself, I believe an apology and ammends are in order for my harsh words to you and for ASSuming that you were being a hypocrite. I hope you can forgive me.
Now, back to the migrant workers (and I really wish you would substitute this term for your NOMADS), I'm not sure what you're doing to these poor people, but our migrant workers are long term. We have some that have been here in excess of 10 years, are in leadership positions, etc.
The fact that your folks leave you could simply have something to do with the industry. Let's face it, produce isn't the most glamorous, but it's certainly a notch above swine, which is only one notch above poultry further processing which is the bottom of the scale x:D
As long as you do your due dilligence (and don't go overboard like asking peple to reverify a Permanent Resident Card like you've admitted to doing) in hiring and documenting your regulatory compliance stuff then you will be fine. No one is going to jail. If you do, I'll bake you a cake with a file.
The people that get raided and busted for employing illegals are the SOB's that abuse them by paying them below minimum wage and no OT in unsafe conditions, etc or the clowns that try to fly under the radar by scheming to 1099 them as contractors or some other slick plan.
You should come visit the Farm one day, you might learn a thing or two about our industry. Let me know if you're interested and I will make arrangements to fly you up for a day or so. I'll even take you down to the Grand Ole Opry or the Ryman and eat lunch at BB King's on 2nd Ave.
Gene
PORK
I can hear them now Pork, throughout the meat plants, produce plants, and lettuce fields. I see a grass roots movement starting now that we've seen the kinder, gentler side of you.
There is absolutely no way for an employer to access information from the database or use it for any purpose whatever.
When a court enters a support order against you, the clerks enter your info into the database (name, SSN, DOB). As long as you are current, it sits idle. The minute you default and become a deadbeat parent, the system starts "sniffing" other states databases looking for matches, it then generates a garnishment order.
We have incorporated "TN NEW HIRE REPORTING" into our internal HR New Hire Flow Document. Since it's done online, I get an email verification that my assistant completed the process. I just put them in an Outlook folder.
Gene
I'll edit out and delete what Calico thought 'sucked', as vulgar as that analysis is, and let her mount her soapbox and give us all a lesson on missions, as if none of us ever had a cause other than working a job in HR.
I don't need to go 'South of the border' to get a gut check, smell raw sewage, mingle with people who don't have a dime, or help people up out of slums. I grew up in the Mississippi Delta, the single poorest region in the United States. And I won't bore the Forum with it, but I spent more than a few years of my young life trying in vain to reverse those circumstances. I didn't need a touchy feely trip to another world to find horrible living circumstances and squalor. The Mississippi Delta up through the 60s, and in some pockets, still today, was exactly that!
I thought this thread was about Homeland Security, and, to some extent, illegal aliens; not social activism and reinventing illegal aliens as undocumented immigrants. Immigration is a legal and orderly process that most of our forefathers went through. Notwithstanding the reason they are here and the US foodchain economy, they are illegal aliens and we do have laws.
And contrary to the beliefs of some, we DO NOT have 'situational laws' that we might overlook depending on whether we market produce, pig's feet or widgets.
peace.
That aside, let's discuss a living wage that would allow our employees to purchace nine dollar chickens and four dollar lettuce. But the "good news" is that wages are already driven up to try and attract domestic workers to replace undocumented immigrants. The bad news is that people will REALLY job hop for more money so they can afford to buy food. Our workforces will turn over so quickly, we won't have time to get people through orientation, let alone train them to do their job.
My previously-mentioned (but deleted) diatribe referenced some of my experiences, which include teaching ESL, working for a Catholic mission in Mexico, and later writing grants for migrant and seasonal farmworkers. Permit me to share a little of said diatribe. Until your nose is full of raw sewage, until you've been offered the very last and best of something a family has because you're a guest, until you realize you park your car and hang your clothes in structures that are miles above and beyond what half the world is sleeping in tonight, I don't want to hear it.
Is it legal for them to come? No. Is it morally wrong? That's where you have to make your own decision. I absolutely agree that we need laws and we need to enforce them. (How often do we talk on this forum about writing a policy and sticking to it?) But I cannot turn my back on human suffering, and I will not.
They don't need us to build them churches, our mission found out. They need us to understand their life, have a gut-check about ours, and help them figure out a long-term answer. Discussing those answers would be a bit much for this thread. But I can tell you that you won't have a clue if you don't venture out of your comfortable life.
On October 3rd and 4th of the same year, while on another forced entry search for Aidid (head of the militia), we came under attack. The very same people we were there to help actually assisted the militias in trapping us by dragging trash, tires, matresses and other household debris into intersections and setting it on fire in order to hamper our movement.
I won't bore the forum with the details but I grew-up that day. I lost my innocence. I also lost friends. I have been fortunate. My guardian angel has given lots of lifes.
Gene
I also apologize to the forum for, as Don mentioned, hijacking the thread.
One of my pet peeves is people making decisions, comments, and even policy based on emotions versus facts. There are so many facts on either side of the fence that just about any theory can be supported, but speaking off the cuff doesn't do anyone any good.
Perhaps I'm a little touchy - I'm in the midst of the annual morale survey, which has a negative impact on MY morale due to all the whining. x:'( But it's a good way to get some issues out that people won't talk about otherwise, so I plug away.