HOW TO HIRE ALIEN CITIZEN?!!!??
Ethel
194 Posts
WE are contemplating hiring an alien citizen. Have ZERO knowledge of procedures since we have not done this before. Can anyone give me some advice of where to locate this type of info?
Comments
From this there are lots of us on this forum who have good and bad experiences. Answer the above question and we might be able to help!
Pork
We are familiar with the man as he as been a customer for many years.
In case anyone is not familiar with this type of visa it is strictly for Canadian and Mexican nationals. It was created by NAFTA.
PORK is really knowledgeable in all matters related to immigration. His industry hires tons of legal immigrants and he sponsors visas. I will defer to him since in the end he will manage to convolute the whole damn thread anyway.
Gene
>the other hand, he could swim across and buy
>fake documents oops, no I didn't really suggest
>that.
Sorry G3, not with Pork defending our borders
against all illegal immigrants :X
I have come to the conclusion that the H1B is a governments ability to say yes, you can hire a foreign, but only if there is no US Citizen who can do the work.
I recommend Ethel should forget about it until the new rules and procedures are set up! I too have read that H1B allocations for immigration are already filled for this year.
PORK
Since you say you have zero knowledge about the process I suggest you call a labor law attorney with intimate knowledge of the immigration process. You can get a million suggestions from the forum about what to do or not do and the variety of pitfalls and minefields involved in the immigrant-work visa-sponsorship process.
My immediate thought is to suggest to you that this is more trouble than you want or need to tackle. It's certainly not anything like the benevolent process of adopting a pet or sponsoring an unfortunate family just wanting a chance to make a good living.
This whole process will wear you out, and for good reason. That reason is that immigrants should not be allowed into this country on the basis of filling a job that a domestic worker is qualified and available to fill.
But, my opinion notwithstanding, call a labor lawyer. Do not take the advice of the alien's attorney.
OK, first lesson. - Foreign National -- better?
I don't know how high up the food chain you are, but I am only a manager. When I talk to the CEO, Pres, etc. (perhaps as CYA), I prefer to know a little something about what's under discussion. In this instance, we have made no approach to this person but I Wanted to know something about what would be ins store. I was delighted to learn about TN-1 so I could fake some knowledge before I discouraged H-1B route.
So, Don, although you are right about going to a labor attorney the suggestions, ideas, experiences, etc. that I get from you and the other forumites are invaluable. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience.
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But again, Ethel, I highly discourage pursuing any of these routes unless you cannot locate suitable, qualified domestic workers. The process in some instances costs upwards of nine thousand dollars and can tie you up for almost 7 years with endless paperwork and hoop-jumping.
I totally agree (maybe because I'm lazy) but I am not the last word. I will say that we have been attempting to recruit in the good ole USA. There are some very industry specific & technical requirements so we have been unsuccessful. No definite decision has been made regarding making an offer, so perhaps it is an idea that will die. Thanks........
The TN is very easy, at least from Canada.. just a letter saying that they have a job from you and that's about it. They have to do the rest. However, you do have notification responsibilities if they quit.
The H1B takes about 6 months and is costly. (Have to run ads in papers, forms to complete, and applications to send it and wait.) Also, I think I read that they have already given out all the H1B's for this year, or maybe that was a 2004 ariticle??
I wish the US could figure out a way to make this easier and quicker for all involved. May be would cut out on some of the illegals.
I don't know where you are located, but have a great attorney in Atlanta that I have used in the past if you are intersted, please let me know. (ewarthen@newcombspring.com)
E Wart
The H-1B process is not as long and scarey as some believe. Indeed, with expedited filing, you can get an answer in 15 days...granted, you pay extra for that. The kicker is simply trying to make your job fit within the very narrow list of jobs that qualify for that particular visa. It is only meant for special jobs that meet education/experience requirements. Sales won't cut it.
The TN process is much shorter but again, you must prove that person meets one of the jobs allowed for that visa. A TN is only good for 1 year but it can be renewed.
good luck...
But, I must respectfully disagree with your point that it isn't a 'long and scarey' process or doesn't cost as much as some people think. The initial petition has one cost, the next wave of letters has another cost, the renewal has yet another cost, the advertising has another cost, the medical costs for the alien's physicals down the road have other costs, the green card process has other costs and we haven't yet even mentioned the costs the attorney and his clerical staff will be tallying by the hour for three, four, five, six years of this whole process.
It easily reaches 5, 6, 7, 8 thousand dollars. And the government recommends (in fact prohibits) that the employer NOT pass these costs to the alien or require him to pay them. That's the whole point of the process, that the employer pay the entire burden to get his own position filled with an alien that has skills that cannot be found in the United States.
Oh, I forgot the cost to the employer to get an expert at some college somewhere to provide an official translation of diplomas and credentials earned in other countries. The government requires that the employer do that as well.
And the HR Manager must have a super-human ability to tolerate the alien showing up in his/her door almost every day through all of these years wanting to check on his status and wanting to tell you all about his cousin or aquaintenance in Detroit or L.A. who is an expert on the process who can tell you how to do it all differently.
My point is not to tell somebody they should NOT go this route, only to educate and advise legal consultation early in the process. I base it on years of experience negotiating this messy maize.
I've summarized two H1-Bs that we've recently completed so you get a feel for what a reasonable cost is. The costs I list below are for everything: legal fees, transcripts, advertisements, etc. We used a lawyer in each case.
We've done two H1-B's in the recent past. The first was relatively easy as the individual was a South American citizen, graduating from a nearby university in the States. He simply went from graduation to our company. Total cost was ~$2500. The second case was a little more complicated and appears to be similar to Ethel's situation. We wanted to hire an individual from Europe who had done some brokering and contract work for us, but was not on our payroll. He knew our product extremely well and was fluent in several languages, but he did not formally graduate from a university, although he had completed about 75% of his local university's degree requirements and had extensive experience in our field of operations. The big expense in this case was for lawyers that researched and filed all required documents. Total cost about $6,000. Extensions will obviously increase the total cost in the long run.
Hope this gives you a good feel for approximate costs.
I think people are confusing the H-1B with the green card process. We will only sponsor the former and make that known up front. If you are spending more than $4-5 grand (including atty fees and a credentialing service to convert a foreign transcript) on an H-1B you are spending too much (or trying to bring in someone who is too questionable to fit within the jobs intended for that particular visa).
We sponsor various people on H-1Bs and work with excellent counsel from the get go. Not all go smoothly but the vast majority do. If you aren't trying to abuse the system by pigeon holing people into positions that don't fit with the H-1B scheme, it really isn't such a tortured process.
If you go for the green card, then yes, expect years and years of pain, a mandatory recruiting process and probably several thousand in atty fees. I agree that readers need to consult with knowledgeable immigration counsel up front. They will then learn that there are significant differences between these visas and yes, the H-1B just isn't that scarey after all.
Gene
I have read every post in this thread and picked this one out because I agree absolutely. I guess my question would be, why can you not hire an American to do the job you need done? Then again,if your company is willing to spend thousands of dollars and take a job away from one of our own, I am glad I do not work for your company.
jmho
scorpio
Actually, as I stated in my initial post, we have been advertising and interviewing for sometime. And although we are willing to spend a few dollars to fill the position with a fully trained individual, we are NOT willing to spend a few YEARS training someone to fill the position. Also, as soon as the position is filled, it will generate new jobs in the manufacturing arena for Americans.
We are AMERICAN manufacturers and our employees are either American Citizens or individuals whom our government has given the right to work in the United States. We provide competitive wages, excellent benefits and since we are small and privately owned, a paternalistic working atmosphere. We have very low turnover, so our employees are happy to work here.
I am sorry that hiring one individual to do a very technical job, which will produce additional jobs for our citizens offends you so much. But, as we globalize more and more -- get used to it and get over it.!!!
Plea to all participants...let's keep the integrity of the forum to a place where we share meaningful knowledge. It is a reality that business today is increasingly global and thus HR needs to think globally as well if we are to be effective. Let's not shoot the original poster b/c he or she wants more knowledge.
As an aside, my company is also privately held in US...but we have offices and ees all over the world. It is a reality that I need to send US ees overseas...and bring in foreign nationals from overseas to put the right talent where I need it at the right time. It goes both ways. Not all businesses have the same needs, so please, no more lectures for that which you just might know nothing about.
You keep mentioning worldwide application and international connections as if that adds a different slant to the immigration question. They don't get any more international than my last company. It is owned and operated by a Chinese family. We had the most diverse workforce I have ever seen or imagined, including quite a few employees on H1B status, renewed H1B status, Green Card fast track status and students, plus a host of others who had negotiated the process over the years.
A rather large piece of my job was managing the visa process on a weekly basis for a multitude of people for those years. I can tell you with assurance that not a single one of them actually possessed a skill that could not be found or cultivated in the United States of America. I almost felt dirty for those years negotiating this process with people for political and familial reasons.
Just prior to quitting, the owners had me bring onboard a young female Chinese recent college graduate whose family owns a Mercedes company in China. Her job description is bogus, her skills are non-existent and the position she fills could be filled by a hundred local Americans. I won't go into detail as to the illegality of it all. But, suffice it to say, both owners drove Mercedes vehicles.
If this program works for you and your company, fine, continue it. But, I will continue to provide my expertise to those who ask for information on The Forum.
scorpio