HR vs. Manangers

Elle

I have to vent...I have a management team that doesn't manage, for example, they don't give me updates on job descriptions when I ask for them (and I try to do most of them), performance appraisals on never on time or even done (sometimes), they don't always follow procedures according to our handbook to protect their ees. I am becoming so aggreviated! I was hired to develope perimeters and guidelines and I can't even get my managers to comply!!!

I just feel as if everything I do is completely irrelevant and no matter how much I inquiry, push and attempt to guide, nothing works. Even their attendance records are bad!

I feel so stuck and as a result, I have less to do b/c they aren't doing their jobs. They all receive generous salaries to manage their departments and do a job!

Thanks for reading, just needed to vent and maybe read if anyone else experiences this on a consistent basis.

mcmel

Here's what I've done to balance out that same problem at my company, a place that had no structure whatsoever.

On things that can be scheduled, like performance appraisals, raises, etc., I have reminders pop up on MY computer through Microsoft Outlook and I get the paperwork to each of the management that are responsible for the review. That way, I'm initiating the task, but I hound them until it's turned back to me. Eventually, tired of my hounding, they turn them around quickly and now at the beginning of the month they ask me when the reviews will be coming. In that case, I help them put a "reminder" on their computer and after they've picked up the habit of making it happen consistently, I'll remove that specific task from my computer.

We can't schedule raises, but we have meetings periodically to discuss wages and that is scheduled by me also. As I weed myself out of this position, I've been putting reminders on each of their computers to make sure things continue to happen on time.

Sounds a little cumbersome, but I've instilled my system on them and I hope it sticks. If you are more structured than your managers you have to find a system that they get used to and work them into it.

There's hope for you!

Elle

Thank you for your advice, it sounds like your plan has worked out well. I have done something similar for the appraisals with actual packets and have delivered them in person.

Your managers do appraisals every month?

mcmel

Everybody is due for a review every six months, determined by their hire date. So, there are reviews being done each month, depending on an employees hire date.

Spreads the joy throughout the year.

Don D

I don't think we should babysit managers to the point where we become their clerk. Sending them constant reminders and messages and initiating paperwork for those who should be managing themselves and their activities will only teach them to be ineffective. And it teaches them that their ineffectiveness is going to be rewarded. And it also results in you adding work to your own plate and eventually being so tied up managing for ineffective people that you cannot get your own work done well. They hired me for two reasons here: To keep the facility union free and to keep us out of labor law issues, not to send popups.

My department maintains an extensive employee database which lists dates such as last review, next review, hire date, department, supervisor and several other pieces of 'public' information. It is the supervisor's responsibility to check the database. I also distribute in staff meeting once a month a list of any overdue reviews by employee name, date due and supervisor's name. It's effective.

Supervisors and managers here are rated in their own review on whether or not they do their reviews timely. It's either yes or no. Unacceptable or acceptable. And it can bring a score down and bring a raise down.

Of course all of this has to have the support and expectation from the top down. Otherwise, you'll always be frustrated.

Elle

I completely agree, I don't feel that I should "babysit." Because HR is a new department here I do try to support everything I attempt to implement and guide managers in how things should be done. But you are right Don, the frustration is growing and I may have to look else where for a better understanding of what it is I do 40+ hours a week.

Pork

ELLE:
I have been there and done that, I took my concerns to the General Manager, and when I got the negative to neutral support from this young Yahoo, I pulled out my resume and began to getting it back into circulation. I stayed around for three years and then was the first out the door with a RIFED action. Clearily, the GM and my peer group of managers where not very concerned for the HR World of Work and felt like they readlly did not need a HR. Just "payroll" that was all they needed. The plant is shut down completely, The GM was finally fired and the manufacturing operation was "outsourced". I am glad I got out of there when I did. My prayers were answered, and I did not even know it at the time!

PORK

dchr9203

I've been in this situation and had the much appreciated support of my CEO, who empowered me to act, and then supported through consequences. However, that CEO moved on, another came in who was useless, and I began agressively seeking other employment opportunites. I left within 6 months of his arrival. Without the support of your CEO, you'll just spin your wheels in frustation.

HRQ

The "vs." in your Subject line immediately struck me as negative. If YOU perceive your relationship with the managers as a "versus" then they probably do too.

When rolling out something new (or trying to enforce something that wasn't done consistently in the past) the most effective way I've found to get what I need from managers is to simply ASK them what it's going to take. Once I have their commitment, then I use threats and all other things "evil" in the HR world to get them to comply. In many cases, they've given me suggestions that were better than my own (imagine that!) because THEY are the ones actually doing the task I'm asking for.

Even if you walk in knowing exactly what you want/need from them, getting their perceived buy-in will make your life a million times easier. x:)

mcmel

Elle,

Regarding babysitting your management, I'm not sure about your company, but I'll elaborate some about mine. I'm the first HR person this company has ever had, so my job was to develop some structure and get policies / procedures / job descriptions written. Everything has been from the ground up.

You have to determine what your own company needs. Mine needed lots of babysitting starting out and because of what I did, they each now have a system that they follow, whether they've taken up the "task reminder" process that I initiated or whether they have their own system. Regardless, the babysitting had to be done. As an HR person, you may know what they're lacking in better than they do.

Being a fairly new company with all young management, they needed somebody to hold their hand. Not everybody has the benefit of walking into a company that is established and picking up where the previous HR person left off. A decision you'll have to make in your own situation.

Elle

mcmel: That is how I thought and felt when I came on board here, a little guiding and patience can go a long way, but that isn't always the case. My managers have been here for an average of 10 years and I don't think they care to see improvment at this point unless I do it for them.

I hope you are right and that time and my great efforts will pay off.

Thanks for the post.

smaces_twin

I'm not into the hand holding and I'm not into the public humiliation or punishment method. I like giving managers something of value. Then they will buy into it. If it doesn't serve a purpose or add value don't do it. You're hounding them for reviews. Do the reviews add value to your business or are you just doing them because that's what your 'posed to do? Maybe the managers don't do them because they are useless. WHy don't you pick that project to show you can add value. SPend some time asking them why they don't do them on time. Then take some steps to fix it.

THere is not enough time here to deal with all the issues. Sit down or stand up and talk to them. FInd out what tools you can give them. Tell your boss or the president your going to do that and get their buy in.

I know venting help keep our santiy, but it will not help the situation. Get in there and do something.

Elle

I have spoken to them, I have asked them on their input among other things. They asked me in the beginning to creat an appraisal method b/c they never really had one in the past and would like a formal way to review employees.

Either way I will figure it out, but whether I decide to take further action in my role here depends on management and upper management, w/o their support, HR is nothing here.

Don D

Methinks you purposefully misconstrued part of our procedure. Presenting the management team with a monthly list of overdue reviews in staff meeting is quite a motivator. No one is humiliated or punished. We also have boards at all work cells where a matrix is posted daily. Among other things the matrix shows productivity for the cell, efficiencies, first pass yield and customer returns. If too many of these show a downward trend, the employees are not humiliated. Or if they are we don't know it, because they aren't here any longer. x:-)

Having experienced and become proficient in at least five intricate review processes over the years (and years) I am of the firm opinion that the best motivator (and buy-in)for supervisors/managers to do timely, meaningful reviews is to tie it somehow to their compensation. Other approaches, in my humble opinion, are mumbo-jumbo.

Tish

Elle,

I didn't realized you worked for the same company and at the same location as I do!!??? Or maybe my managers are moonlighting for your company.

At times I feel the same way as you do. I stay motivated by knowing that I do help the EEs here and am making VERY SLOW progress with the managers.

If I developed the same attitude as theirs then I would just be part of the problem, I would rather be able to look back and say I was part of the solution, which makes me continue to find ways to present the same information in different ways so the managers will realize the things presented to them are important.

Good luck and hang in there. If it gets to the point you can't take, start looking for some other company that will appreciate you. Life is too short.