I-9

Tish

Need help.

When an EE gets married and goes through a name change how do you handle the I-9? Do you pull their original I-9 and fill out section 3 to update with corrected name or do you fill out a completely new I-9 and attach the two? Or does it matter which way you do it?

I have went on line but I haven't found anything that directly relates to this issue.

Appreciate your help on this as I will be presenting a training session to our location managers on this topic.

FunHRBanker

When an EE gets married, you have to wait for the new social security card and their new Driver's License. You then write the new information in Section 3 and re-file under the new name.

Don D

That's news to me. I don't know that we have any obligation whatsoever to update I-9 forms upon changes of status unless the original documents reviewed had expiration dates. If that were the case, you'd need to go into your files and change every historical document you have on file in any number of locations. You verify eligibility to work upon hire; you're not certifying that you will forever keep this form current in every respect. Not required.

Crout

I think you also have to update the form if the person left your employ for a time and then was re-hired...correct?

Kent

I agree with Don. I've never heard of the requiremnt to update this document.

Pork

"Dandy Don": You need to review the back side of any I-9 form and Section 3 - Updating and Reverification. "Employers must complete Section 3 when updating and/or reverifying the I-9. Employers must reverify employment eligibility of their employees on or before the expiration date recorded in Section 1".

So old wise one "never say never" or acknowledge your failure to fully understand the requirement. You may not have any foreign nationals in your current "working world", you therefore would have only US Citizens employed and in your file. Now should your current employer have employees other than US Citizens, if you check closely in Section 1, the non-US Citizen will have checked either box 2 or 3 and written in expiring dates of their work permit. These ees must have their documents reverified!

sorry ole boy I just could not resist such a strong statement. You are not often wrong but on this technical piece "never say never"!

PORK

HR in CA

We complete section 3. I have had a few employees with 2-4 name changes, so section 3 can be quite full.

HRsage

I agree with Don. You don't need to do anything to the I-9 for the scenario you described. Their work eligilbility did not change at all. That is what the I-9 is for.

We do require a new SS card and photo id to process the name change, but that is for payroll purposes only.

mushroomHR

Why would you have to reverify? You have already established that John/Jane Doe can legally work in the US. What difference does it make if s/he changes a name. It is still the same person. Once you establish that they are legal I don't think any reverification is needed.

Don D

When Congress gave birth to the I-9 process, some 15 years ago, the agency I worked for was trained extensively in the procedure and form preparation. We were trained in recognizing document fraud as well. For many years our agency trained employers in its use and would do the verification and form completion prior to referring applicants for employment. I assure you that there is no obligation to update the I-9 form in the instance you cite. Think what you are doing if you voluntarily choose this madness. You'll also need to update your form everytime a woman divorces and changes her name. Not to mention the dreaded liberated-hyphenated name change. We have enough to do without imposing these sorts of obligations on ourselves. For those of you who are thinking of adding this requirement in your Department, don't.

Superlative

I also agree that you have no obligation to update the I9, but you might want to consider re-filing it under the new name.

Tish

Thank you so much for the information.

I plan to recommend to our corp office not to do this, your comments help support that for me.

I agree that you should have a copy of new SS card &/or license, etc on file if someone gets married.That way if the records are not updated for payroll and it comes back as a name not matching, which was the case for me after I was married.

Pork

TISH: PLEASE READ MY POST UP ABOVE. If you have any foreign nationals employed there is a requirement to review and reverify the I-9.

PORK

Whatever

>
>
>I agree that you should have a copy of new SS
>card &/or license, etc on file if someone gets
>married.


When some one has a name change, you need a copy of the new ss card for payroll purposes. You do not need the license.

Don D

"Dandy Don": You need to review the back side of any I-9 form and Section 3 - Updating and Reverification. "Employers must complete Section 3 when updating and/or reverifying the I-9. Employers must reverify employment eligibility of their employees on or before the expiration date recorded in Section 1".

Pork, I suggest you are the one who needs to read the form. You quoted it fairly well but you apparently have no idea what it means. It has nothing to do with an employee getting married. It has everything to do with EXPIRING documents and governmentally required RE-verification. Marriage is not one of those events. Trust me Porkman. I know what I am talking about. Check with your other source if you feel a need to. And I will stand by for your apology. x:-)

And for the original poster whose last comment is that we still need to have a copy of the new license on hand, I would ask, 'whatever for?'

Pork

"Dandy Don" read your own post it was you that stated without reservation that you had "never heard of a need to reverify", "it is news to you". I don't have to apologise for anything, I agree with you marriage is not one of those, UNLESS IT IS WITH A FOREIGN NATIONAL OF WHICH I HAVE A FEW!

It was through marriage, and this very process that I found out that my US Citizen female employee had married one of our hispanic males, but her new name was different than what we knew him to be. we pulled his I-9 to check his expiration date on his work permit and it was still current, we then was able to question him and ask for a reverification and now he could not produce the same work permit as shown on his marriage license. He was terminated and the marriage of convenience was desolved recently.

HEAR ME OLE WORRIOR, WITH ALL THAT GREAT GOVERNMENT SERVICE, EVEN YOU CAN BE WRONG, YOU SHOULD APOLOGIZE TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER FOR YOU CERTAINLY LEAD HER AND ME AND SEVERAL OTHER FOLLOWERS, TO BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS NEVER AN OCCASION WHERE THE EMPLOYER HAS A NEED TO REVERIFY THE I-9, AND THAT IS NOT CORRECT. SHE COULD BE FROM PECO FOODS, WHICH HAD AN EMPLOYEE BASE OF 200 FOREIGN NATIONALS AND THEY CERTAINLY HAD A NEED TO REVERIFY. I ONLY HAVE SEVEN BUT I STILL MUST REVERIFY.

HAVE A NICE AND BLESSED DAY, TOMORROW!

PORK

Don D

Pork: I'm hesitant to continue arguing with you, but you need to really slow down in your reading. Both of my posts say that there is no need to reverify "Upon change of status" and "in the instance you cite (marriage)".

Nothing was said about foreign nationals. The question and my answers (and by the way all of the other answers) related strictly to reverification following MARRIAGE, nothing else. If that was unclear to you I do apologize for your speedreading. If I mislead others, which I seriously doubt, I would like for them to point that out to me, not have you do it for them. Take the rest of the day off. Maybe its hot over in your part of the state and I know what heat does to a hogfarm. x:-)

Pork

"Dandy Don": Heat on a Hog farm is money honey!

Your postings that I have re-read are as you state, addressing a marriage issue. With your expertise and maximum amount of time to provide good experience and wisdom is well appreciated. However, out of respect for your learned knowledge, I would like for you to be more capable of not being so forceful and direct in your words from time to time. Knowing full well that there is a requirement to reverify, it would have been so easy for you to have qualify your response with "in the case the I-9 is identified as a foreign national with box 2 or 3 checked, there just might be a need to re-verify the I-9".

Given that I was a new HR and have read the postings in our forum of some less experienced HRs, I may have taken your words, an extremely experienced HR with great history, as gospel, and close the case on the question!

I simply read the original post as someone that was seeking worldly and all encompassing help dealing with a marriage issue and I-9, the nationality of the ee was not identified; and when I read your post, you had not obviously, had the personal experience and story that I had and it appeared to me that you did not take the opportunity or you did not know about the foreign national marriage event that I had. Therefore, you stated "never heard of such a thing and news to me", to other posters, who chimed in to help and then the final posting thanking you for your words and supporting your claims, that there was absolutely NO NEED TO REVERIFY THE I-9 IN A MARRIAGE SITUATION, (that is UNLESS THE FOREIGN NATIONAL IS THE EMPLOYEE)!

Now lets go get a beer and eat some BBQ or chitterlings!

PORK

Don D

Hold off on that beer Pork. Read a little further down. But, maybe you'll be needing a 12 pack after you read further. Have a good one. Eat Mo Possum.

TN HR

>we pulled his I-9 to check his
>expiration date on his work permit and it was
>still current, we then was able to question him
>and ask for a reverification and now he could
>not produce the same work permit as shown on his
>marriage license. He was terminated and the
>marriage of convenience was desolved recently.

Then you have clearly violated the law! Under what law, regulation or notion did you require the ee to re-produce employment authorization which had not yet expired?

Furthermore, not all employment authorizations need to be recertified based on an expiration date alone. A Permanent Resident, for example, would have a document ("green card") with an expiration date, which you are not required, nor permitted, to reverify based on expiration alone.

I commend your insight and apparent thirst for knowledge in this arena, however, on this particular thread and topic you have managed to convolute things and, in the process of doing so, revealed what I believe to be an illegal and discriminatory practice.

Gene

Don D

In Pork's zeal to wear a Border Patrol Agent's badge, he could very well find himself facing a personal and business lawsuit. That activity far exceeded what is allowed under law.

Pork

Gene: When given the facts of a marriage license, a US Government document PROVIDED BY OUR US CITIZEN FEMALE, which identifys your named FOREIGN NATIONAL employee as a different employee would you not go to the original documents provided by this individual to say to self: WHOA NELLIE, SOMETHING AIN"T RIGHT AND IT STINKS IN THE HOG HOUSE? CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT I CALL IT GOOD HR WORK, AND SUSPENSION FOLLOWED BY TERMINATION, AFTER 5 WORKING DAYS WAS THE CALL.

Not worried at all about any other threat from litigation.

May you also have a Blessed day tomorrow, for your words appear to be alittle hostile and convulsed today!!!!

PORK

LisaMN

[url]http://uscis.gov/graphics/lawsregs/handbook[/url]

This should get everybody the info they need. It is a link to the Handbook for Employers on the INS website or Homeland Security or whatever they call it now. It addresses reverification on pages 4 & 5.

Pork

LISAMN: Yep, that is exactly what my personal copy of the Handbook for Employers says as well as the back of every I-9 form.

If the employee cannot provide you with proof of current work authorization, you cannot continue to employ that person. My foreign national ee could not provide any apparent legal document which would now prove that the original document provided was in fact ligitmate.

All of this came from personal knowledge of a need to check the expiration of the original document and the name listed on the marriage license was different from the name on the work permit.

Thanks for your lead Lisa.

PORK

TN HR

Pork,

Your reasoning, interpretation and application of the law is flawed, BIG TIME! I suggest becoming more educated on the ENTIRE word and spirit of the law, not just the part you choose to apply to the particular situation.

Call it what you will, but the fact is that you have singled-out an individual based solely on national origin and in the process of breaking THAT law, you have also managed to violate who knows how many more, not to mention the disruptiveness to your organization and people's lives.

You may continue to get away with your vigilante ways, but not forever. You are placing yourself and your company in a tough predicament. Prepare yourself for the crucifixion ahead. Any hogs left over after the attorneys get done with you and the company will be used for the celebratory plaintiff's pig pickin'.

No hostility at all, I'd just hate to see someone single-handedly bring a company down due to personal agendas and ignorance of the law.

Gene

Pork

GENE: "DANDY GENE", This is what is so great about this forum! We stupid, laid back red-neck (excluding "Dandy Don")personalities get to read and take from forum participants, that which we can use and that which we can not. You have so fully broken my bubble that I probably will never post another word of deep explanation, again. Oh how I wish to enhance my value to my company, my person, and the persons of this forum, but I can't get there from here, you have blocked my way! I guess the young HRs in this forum have now the ability to see a very discredited elderly poster, who has no knowledge of the law and can not read the written words and interpret the words in order to administer to my companies need. Therefore, I am going to my corner of the world and get well from the beating I have been given, in the written word that I do not understand. Oh, now I see, a negative does cancel out a negative, which leaves me with a positive and the permission to continue posting as I see fit!

Thanks for your diverted encouragement to do better!

PORK