religious propaganda

Jeffrey

Recently an ee has expressed that someone stop placing gospel tracts in the restroom. A gospel tract is a postcard bi-fold sized explanation of God's love and forgiveness usually containing the instructions on how to become a christian. This tract is setting in the stall at arms reach free for anyone to read. In order to read it one would have to pick it up and open it to read it. There is no company policy stated about religious propaganda. I'm looking for some replies/suggestions. Thanks for taking the time.

Gillian3

Would your question be the same if the tract was as excerpt from the Koran or a pro-abortion pamphlet? If a complaint were made about those and you would remove them you have answered your own question.

Balloonman

Gillian,
Nicely done.
My $0.02 worth!
DJ The Balloonman

Don D

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-08-04 AT 02:36PM (CST)[/font][br][br]It is my feeling that gospel tracts should not be in the workplace. Not only does it open you up to the need then to allow them for all similar materials, it also opens you up to a requirement that you allow them for union organizing purposes. Jeffrey, not to offend you, but I have noticed all of your posts today have been religious based. Am I detecting an agenda?

Jeffrey

Don

Yes, you are.

deniseE

do you have a policy about ee's doing fundraisers and that sort of thing??? external, nonwork related propaganda is external nonwork related propaganda.

Since you may not know who the person is placing the "information" perhaps a business wide email reminding everyone that no forms of propaganda should be placed in the bathrooms or otherwise. You may be glad as the presidential election nears that you took such steps now.

Don D

You posted an Adam & Eve website today already. You will probably find that the Employers Forum is not a site intended for proselytizing. By the way, what would have been your answer to the question Gillian posed?

ritaanz

I have a powerful gut feeling that you are the one that left those tracts for employees to read.

If that is so, I strongly recommend that they be removed immediately. If you are not the one, I still strongly recommend that you remove them.

There is a time and place for everything, and the work environment is not the place for anyone's religious sentiment.

Parabeagle

And if you are in HR, Jeffrey, your sincerely held convictions may prevent you from the dispassionate administration of your function's responsibilities. An HR person can have opinions, beliefs and convictions, but if they interfere with your ability to objectively deal with issues, they have no place in the office.

safety

We only allow "reading" material in our employee break-room, never in the production area or restroom facilities. We allow employees to read on break and lunch and that is the only time that literature, other than company issued, is allowed. Of course we have had an issue with the appropriateness of some of the reading material as far as content and have had to censure some of the material, remove it. If we had this type of literature and a complaint was made it too would be removed.

Jeffrey

ritaanz,

No, I am not the one placing the tracts to read. Personally I do not agree with removing them. There used to be pornography in the breakroom. There still is girly calendars hanging in the shop. But over the years there is less and less of it in our company. As management we share the truth with our ees and we are seeing results. We allow certain freedoms in the workplace and as a result we are seeing changes for the better.

Jeffrey

Gillian3 & Don D,

We are open and we would allow those things such as the Koran or some pro-abortion literature. I believe that the truth is going to defeat the lies of the world anyway. So we allow almost any type of propaganda and know that ultimately the truth will win. We have an ee right now that is involved in a cult. He seems a little unstable but we let him bring his literature in as well. Everyone that has read it has rejected it for the most part. They have not rejected him personally, but his beliefs and he is OK with that. We have had muslims, buddhist, catholics, atheist, cultist (if that is even a word), christians, and jews and we still get along great as fellow ees. Our company was hit hard since 9/11/01, but we maintained our unity. We made some much needed changes, we never filed bankruptcy, and are now running at a profit once again. Things are going good. We believe that freedoms in the work place are very important and we are very much aware that there is always going to be someone offended about something somewhere. We hope to speak the truth with compassion, and lead by example.

ray a

I have to disagree with you Beagle. Sincerely held convinctions should not be a qualifier for an HR position. Everybody has sincerely held convinctions of one form or another. A sincere Buddhist can't be in HR? A sincere conservative can't be in HR? A sincere liberal shouldn't be in HR?

The key is how one applies those convictions to the workplace. That being said, I believe one should not be proselytizing at work. And based on Jeffrey's post below, the girly pictures should be removed, too.

Don D

Somebody needs to bite the bullet and have a frank discussion with the guys in 'the shop'. For an eternity we thought of 'the shop' as a world unto itself where this sort of thing was acceptable, or at least overlooked. It no longer is and has not been for some 10 years or more. 'Girly' calendars and pictures in the shop or anywhere else can be a forerunner to a sexual harassment charge. And that includes those that are inside the lid of toolboxes and taped to the back of metal locker doors. You should bring this reality to the attention of the person in charge of your facility.

Jeffrey

parabeagle,

If I do not stand for my beliefs and convictions that I am a fraud. We can show love and compassion for our fellow ees and still hold to our convictions if you do it in the proper way. At the office, at home, at church, at school, on the construction site, on the airplane, at the company dinner, even on a business trip be the same and be real. If your the same in all these ares of youe life then people around you will see that you are real, honest, and the same. We shouldn't wear other faces. Most of us in management would like to be known as men and women of integrity. At least I hope so. I you lead like that then ees around you will respond. After all, management is a leadership position.

Don D

I find myself in the odd position of defending Parabeagle. I think Ray and Jeffrey need to stand down off the alter and read the last part of Beagle's post. IF your convictions and personal belief's get in the way of objectivity, you should not be in a position requiring objectivity. That's the way I understood him and I share that. Proseletizing, witnessing vocally, handing out religious tracts, suggesting prayer to employees....these are the types of otherwise perfectly acceptable religious activities that ARE NOT appropriate in an HR person carrying out his/her duties.

Lead with your left.

Whatever

As all the old timers know, I am Jewish. Therefore, the obvious question, "whose truth?" To state that you allow all sorts of literature because your truth will prevail is to show an amazing degree of intolerance for the strongly held beliefs of others. A good HR person cannot be intolerant of the beliefs of others. Instead, we must be understanding and respectful of other individuals and their beliefs. The obvious second questions is "what changes for the better are you seeing?"

deniseE

What if the information pertained to the Wiccan faith? What if it was from a fundamental muslim organization? We could play the what-if game all day long.

The bottom line is that if you allow this door to remain open to your truth...you must permit other's truths also...equally, without discrimination.

ray a

Philosophically, I agree, Whatever.

ritaanz

Hogwash! Certain freedoms, such as? Share certain truths with our ees? What truths???

That's mighty nice of you. You are supposed to be running a business and, I assume for profit. With such inane comments I wonder what kind of a company you work for and what your position (job) is.

Jeffrey

I apologize for offending you, but you and I have the same set of laws (The 10 Commandments). The difference is that I believe that Jesus is the messiah and you don't. That's ok. Your old testament and my old testament are the same. As for the changes, there are no more nude pictures hanging around and there is alot less foul language and inappropriate talk. The nude pictures were addressed by the owner of the company. The foul talk and behavior changes are a result of the convictions of our management team, and them wanting to set a better example.

ray a

Hence my comment: "The key is how one applies those convictions to the workplace."

I just get very nervous when we talk about people being disqualified from a job because of convinctions, religious or otherwise. Where do we draw the line?

Jeffrey

Why don't we just close this can of worms?

Jeffrey

Not a problem, the doors are open for anyone. But, the path is narrow.

FHR

In one of his posts jeffrey did say that the company allowed every kind of pamphlet etc.. If so, I can't see how they are getting any business done with everyone running around preaching their own beliefs.
Jeffrey, "the truth will prevail", if anyone said that to me at work I would be shocked. Now if they came to my front door on a saturday I would have the option of politely telling them that I am enjoying my BBQ and beer right now and I don't want to be bothered, then show them the front of my door.
This stuff does NOT belong in a professional environment.

ritaanz

Come on Jeff, you are the one that opened it. Why can't you answer some of the questions that were tossed your way?

Looks as if you just take a jab at us and then turn and run. What makes Jeffrey scamper?

HRsage

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-09-04 AT 09:03AM (CST)[/font][br][br]"Recently an ee has expressed that someone stop placing gospel tracts in the restroom-
I'm looking for some replies/suggestions"

Jeffrey, several people, including myself now, suggest that these not be allowed along with other materials, for reasons already stated. But it seems like this isn't what you want to hear.

You don't run a philosophy class, you have a business. There is a time and place for all this and a business is neither. As was stated earlier, by allowing everything you leave the business open to future problems and Union propaganda. The best thing to do is not to allow anything of the sort.

Whatever

In the old testament, there is no mention of nude pictures, foul language or inappropriate talk. However, common sense (and the law) says that all are inappropriate to the work place.

Parabeagle

Absolutely, Ray. Anyone of any faith, belief, political bent, persuasion or species can be in HR. However, I do NOT think an HR professional should let his religious convictions cloud his judgment when it comes to executing the responsibilities of his office. If your beliefs and convictions interfere with your objectivity, you're no longer effective. If your beliefs and convictions color the way you're perceived by others, you're no longer a "neutral party." For example, if a Muslim employee doesn't feel he can come to you with a complaint about religious harassment because you're a proselytizing Christian and he won't get a fair shake, you've just been rendered ineffective.

I think the trick is to embrace your convictions and beliefs. Just make sure they don't interfere with your ability to do your job in a fair, impartial manner.

TN HR

Jeffrey,

Out of curiosity, why did you group catholics in a separate class outside of christians in general?

Gene

Don D

Ray's quandry: "I just get very nervous when we talk about people being disqualified from a job because of convinctions, religious or otherwise. Where do we draw the line?"

Ray, you haven't been listening. Nobody has implied that someone should be disqualified from a job because of convictions and several of us have indicated where the line is drawn. One disqualifies him/herself when those convictions are shared freely in the employment context in the types of efforts I will mention below. And the line is drawn at proseletizing, attempts to convert, sermonizing, preaching, laying hands on in prayer, offering up prayers in an HR setting, telling employees you will pray with or for them to a certain power, admonishing others that they will or might go to Hell or another place, telling employees in a spiritual context that "The Truth Will Prevail" or that "The path is narrow", inviting employees to accept Christ or your faith. I suspect rather strongly that Jeffrey spends a better part of his day doing those very things. If my suspicion is correct, I would say that he has disqualified himself from serving in an HR capacity. He is not employed as a chaplain or an adventist, or if he is, he has not told us so.

It's just this simple: Nobody at work should really know what my religion is or if I have one. Nor should anyone at work know my position on abortion, if I have one.