Allowed to Demand SS Cards?

HRGddss

Are we allowed to require a social security card for payroll? I say no, but need backup. Help!

Don D

I say yes. So far it's a tie. But I'm sure you're gonna lose this one. x:-)

Parabeagle

ABSOLUTELY NOT! (Was that unequivocal enough?)
x:-)

As long as the employee can produce alternate documents of any type provided on the list of acceptable documents, you CANNOT require him to produce selected documents.

HR in CA

Yes, you can demand a Social Security card for payroll reasons as long as you ask all employees for the card as company policy. As far as I-9 are concerned, no you may not indicate what you will receive.

szemcumo

I also agree that you should and we do without fail require a copy of ss card within 30 days of employment(ee can show us verification from ss dept they have applied if card was lost and then bring in card when rec'd) in order to VERIFY that the name on the ss card matches the name exactly on the payroll and W-2's etc. We even require when a name change is made, ie marriage, divorce that new card is submitted if a name change is made. I-9's there are other opttions.

Dan

I will have to agree with Parabeagle on this one. They should be able to produce alternate documents. But if the person lost their card and had not requested another… it would be tough to take any kind of action.

HRsage

This has been discussed awhile back on the forum. At the time I thought the answer was no.

However a fellow forumite provided a resource stating that it was legal to demand a SSC only for payroll purposes. I can't recall what resource it was, I think it was from the IRS, but I'm not sure.

Parabeagle

I obviously misread the post and mentally substituted "I-9" for "payroll."

However, I'm still not all that comfortable with demanding a SS card, even for payroll purposes. We require all managers to verify SS numbers through the Social Security administration's toll free number as a way of keeping mismatch letters to a minimum, thereby negating the need to demand a card for payroll purposes. In those cases where the number given does not agree with SS records, we require them to contact SSA and rectify the matter.

mwild31

I'm with HR in CA on this one.

SMace

Ditto to Mwild.

Don D

I can't vote but once, but will point out that there IS NO substitute document for payroll purposes other than the social security card. It contains the proper, legal name of the registrant as well as the authentic registered number assigned to him or her and it's used for tax purposes. The IRS also collects social security taxes. This is entirely apart and separate from what we are to do in the I-9 verification process. Carry on with the balloting.

SMace

Do you allow ee's NOT to give you a SS #? Or do you just require they give you a number and not a card?

juju

I think this was the topic of my very first post here. I got some great answers. Basically, you can require whatever documentation you want for whatever reasons (payroll, DOT, funding agencies, etc.), but you cannot mandate what the employee uses for the I-9. For example, we require SSCs so the name in our system matches the name on file with SSA. I'm sure we have all seen the number of employees who have a different name on their SSC than the one they put on their application (due to marriage, divorce, etc.). We also must view a valid driver's license as all of our positions require one, but we don't insist that the DL or SSC be the documents for the I-9.

marc

Ditto the ditto.

Parabeagle

No, not at all. Example: New Guy starts work and is filling out new hire paperwork. When certifying for I-9 purposes, NG produces passport and the deal's done. Didn't need his social security card. Hiring manager (or yours truly if it's a hire here at Corporate) calls SSA to verify SS#. If their response is "that matches the information in our records", end of story. There was no need for NG to physically produce the card itself. Of course, our payroll dept. prefers to see a SS card and the majority of our new hires do produce one for I-9 verification anyway. But if NG has lost his card but the info checks out with SSA, why create more work for yourself and NG by making him trudge down to SSA and get a replacement card, etc.?

Crout

Record each new employee's name and social security number from his or her social security card. Any employee without a social security card should apply for one using Form SS-5, Application for Social Security Card (PDF). The Social Security Administration (SSA) offers social security number (SSN) verification and quick access to relevant forms and publications .

I just got this off of the IRS site. Took five minutes. I think we clearly have to verify that the name and number match up, but does that mean that the EE has to produce a card? As mentioned above, you can call the IRS to verify name/number, but with a large worforce and a small HR office (gee, when does that happen?) how viable would it be to task someone with gathering the data? And are applicants protected from discrimination based on their inability to produce an SSA card for payroll? That would be a new one for me. I think you would be on solid ground demanding an SSA card for payroll purposes.

SMace

OK

Pork

That is until the I-9 is required after offer and processing is occurring. The I-9 requires Name, birthday, and SSN with signature and declaration of right to work in our country. Social Security Card is not required, however, it does make it easy for verification of the SSN, name, gender, and birthdate of the concerned. But remember not everyone with whom you are enrolling is a legal and permitted person, therefore, the next step is to validate the SSN, NAME, BIRTHDATE, AND GENDER with the SSA, before you submit your inprocessing record for data processing. It is on this event that I dismiss the potential employee or continue to process. I will not have demanded the social security card for they are easily bought off the streets in every town in our country.

PORK

Dan

I see your point requiring the SS card for payroll. We do extensive background checks here, which include verifing Social Security Numbers. So we do not require a copy of the card.

Pork

CROUT: I hate to disagree, but the social security card has become comprimized and we should not attempt to demand and thrust the likes of it. Applications and I-9 at the right time give you great assisstance in getting it right.

UPDATE: We are soon to be visited by the Social Security Administration, SSN VERIFICATION test developers. The visit will look at our use of the on-line verification system and discuss any recommended changes in order to bring the test to closure. Their intent is to roll out the system that we have been using for a year to everyone who wishes to apply. I recommended by phone conversation to not wait any longer. I also told them of our network and that I will certainly encourage everyone to apply for the on-line system. Their intent is to roll it out before the end of this fiscal year!

PORK

DeidreFR5

It is my understanding from a payroll seminar I attended about a year ago, that you should request to see the ss card. To comply with the I9 form you cannot require specific forms; but to comply with IRS Notice 972CG you need to verify exactly how the name is presented on the social security card to enter it in to the payroll records. This is the only way to insure payroll withholdings are correctly reported to our friends at the Internal Revenue.

Pork

DEIDREFR5: You are absolutely correct, IRS notice 972CG lays responsibility for the verification actions surrounding the SSN,NAME,DTB,GENDER ON THE BACK OF THE EMPLOYER. However, I know for a fact, that SSN Cards are suspect, therefore, in order to be compliant one must used all documentation available to verify these items to include visual methods of connecting an individual's written proof with the visual sighting of the concerned future employee for the gender issue. The SSN card is the last document that we use to satisfy the IRS Notice.

PORK

HRinNH

I glad you brought this up. I'm new in HR and had a new guy start last Fall with no SS card and his DL had expired (noticed on photo copy supplied by hiring supervisor). He quickly renewed his license but didn't seem too interested in getting a new copy of his SS card. I was going by the I-9 so I asked for other forms of ID from list.

Thanks y'all for the SSA info. I'll go to their website for official info.

bgreene

We have a form placed in our new hire packet which explains why we are requesting a copy of the S.S. Card along with information obtained from the Social Security Administration on why this information is needed for payroll purposes. If you would like a copy of this please let me know.

szemcumo

I would appreciate a copy at your convience.
Thanks in advance.
[email]szemblidge@versa-tags.com[/email]

HRinNH

If it's in Word format, I'd appreciate receiving a copy of the form you include in new hire packets. Thanks. O=*

Learning and loving every day...
Cheryl
[u]ccardenas@heatandcontrol.com[/u]

AnneHa

I would very much appreciate a copy of your form.
There is a running debate on this issue around here right now.
[email]ahackman@mail.portsmouth.lib.oh.us[/email]

Thanks!
Anne in Ohio

HRGddss

There is a verification service available through the SSA and should serve our needs, but the payroll person does not want to take of their time to do it.

HRGddss

We of course require a number- but they wish to demand a card as well. I for one don't have one or see the point- I could recreate one and be whomever I chose in about ten minutes. It's a silly piece of paper.

njjel

An associate in payroll has advised me that the company must issue paychecks as shown on their social security card. If that is indeed the case, then we can and should require the social security card.

Pork

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 02-17-04 AT 10:39AM (CST)[/font][br][br]NJJEL: You must have missed my previous post on this issue. The social security card has been compromised and can no longer be trusted as a required document. The requirement is, we must require a ligetimate SSN, name spelling, birthdate, and gender. The social security card could be one of those documents; however, the best document is a company prepared memo drawn up as a template with blank spaces for the above four items and with a short sentence indicating who called SSA and verified the above information. Put spaces in your written statement so that the person verifying can fill in their name signature and the date the action was completed.

Hopefully, SSA will have the on-line program on board this year. The program allows for a single or a multiple group of up to 50 names SSN to verify at once. A single name takes about 10 seconds to verify and it will provide you with a written document of the verification. Both my assistant and myself are on-line. Until this on-line capability is provided you should start producing a telephone call verification sheet to document your efforts and validation of the NAME SPELLING, SSN, GENDER, AND BIRTHDATE.

Getting away from demanding the social security card is easy and recommended. A good SSC is easier, I admit but the card may not contain a reliable "fact" on which you and your company are basing all kinds of personnel action.

PORK