Ratio of Sr. Management to Rank & File

Is there any standard ratio of senior management - Associate Director level up to Pres/CEO - based on company size that anyone is aware of? This is kind of like the ratio of 1 HR professional to every 100 ee's (not that I necessarily agree with that figure).

Any help would be most appreciate.

Comments

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  • You probably will not find such data for one of three reasons:

    1) Such data could only be generated or peddled by consultants. Consultants are notorious for telling senior management what senior management wants to hear, for a price. This type of information would not be especially pleasing to senior management, a fact which would result in loss of income for the consultants, which tells them they should produce no data on such phenomena.

    2) This sort of data does not exist because it has no practical use and data having no utility to management tends to shrivel up and go away. It would only be useful at a senior management level and would conflict with senior management's philosophy that they should populate their own ranks to the exclusion of sound business principles.

    3) You will not find such data because your search will be discovered by senior management who will conclude that the ratio of people in HR is out of whack by '1' at your company.

    x:-)
  • Sounds like Don has been around HR for quite a spell. Me too, and I agree with Don. I have also been told the rule of '1' HR person per 100 employees....however, the consultants I heard it from have never been responsible for more than one, so I don't know where they get that idea from.
    Try to manage HR for 100 engineers, or 100 nurses, or 100 teachers, or 100 hourly workers, or 100 artists, and any one of those employees could take up every minute of your day on benefits, employee relation issues, policy interpretations, marriages, divorces, relocations, and the list goes on and on...not to mention all the reports/recruiting/counseling you do regardless of whether you have 100 or 1000 - takes the same amount of time. Then there are meetings, and more meetings, keeping posters updated, staying up-to-date on State and Federal Laws, mentoring supervisors who put their foot in their mouth and you have the responsibility of taking said foot out of their mouth. Just to mention a few things that goes on in the day and life of that "1" HR person. I do believe One HR person and a "good" HR administrative assistant could manage 100 professional employees and do a good job if the employees are self-sufficient. Some classifications of employees may require more than one HR per 100 employees because of turnover rates,lack of skilled applicants, poor supervising personnel, etc. that could overwhelm one HR person and spread that person too thin. I'm finding that more and more companies look at the HR role as a place to cut heads while legally HR is becoming more and more accountable in their role. Puts more pressure on the HR person. Perhaps we are becoming extinct.
  • Don's advice is always right on the money! Don, Are you sure you dont teach HR in your spare time? You seem to always remember every theory, law, stipulation, ... LOL
  • I'm flattered by your suggestion. But, no, I don't always have a right answer. Maybe 40% of the time if I'm lucky. All I really have is an opinion, and boy, do I have those! And I don't teach....I learn, daily, from everybody else, even Pork. Well, let me think about that. Yes, even Pork.
  • You better re-think about that; and it should come out yes. My Pork _ _ _ T is backed with 62 years of experience and 43 years in the arena of leadership. HR is my second life and I just have become like you addicted to this medium of dialogue, where is open and free "take it or leave it". Isn't that arigh HR in OKLA. Oh, how sweet the funeral for ole REB was! My fingers have got to go, I hear the pigs squealing for food and a little breeding Artificial Insemination, of course!

    PORK
  • Many thanks for your input - I agree with you. I was, in fact, told that such a ratio existed for management to employees by a consultant!


  • I tend to agree that such information is just about useless, but I'm going to give you some anyway just because you asked and I happen to have it.

    Here's an excerpt from a summary of a law recently enacted by our state legislature:

    "Agency Staffing and Productivity. Requires agencies with more than 100 FTEs to achieve a management-to-staff ratio of one manager for every 11 employees by August 31st, 2007. Phases in yearly. 1:8 by March 31st, 2004, 1:9 by August 31st, 2005, 1:10 by August 31st, 2006."

    Now having said that, remember that (1) it's meant to apply to state agencies; (2) it applies to all levels of management rather than just senior management; and (3) this is meant to limit spending rather than promote best practice.
  • Whirlwind: Do you think this will result in the actual reduction of the number of management employees in the agency staffing pattern - OR do you think it will result in a certain number of management jobs being locked in until retirement? Which is more likely to result? Let us know in '07.
  • Don - to answer your question way before ‘07, both, and here’s why. The Leg. also passed a retirement incentive for us which goes like this: Any state employee who retires on their first date of eligibility within the next two years will get a lump sum payment in the amount of 25% of their previous 12 months base pay. So, since managers often tend to be closer to retirement than others, they’re lining up (including me) like lemmings headed out to sea. I’m a mere child of 51, but I can’t pass up a deal like that, especially since I can re-apply for state employment after one month off the payroll. Life is good!
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