Will The Real Engineer Please Stand Up?

HireFire01

Working with Engineers is always a unique experience, to say the least. Recently, I had one of our Engineers tell another Engineer that he should not have the title of "Engineer" in his job title. He claimed that unless he had obtained a "PE" (Professional Engineer)license, it was against the law to be called an "Engineer", and the company could be fined for giving him that title.

This of course caused some conflict, and a bruised ego. I have worked with many degreed Electrical, Mechanical, Civil, and Field Service Engineers for years, who did not have their "PE". This is the first I've ever heard this accusation.

Has anyone ever heard of this before? If so, is there a law?

Thanks!

ritaanz

Did the gentleman have any suggestions as what the correct job title should be? Mechanical Person? Civil Individual? Electrical Being?

Evergreen

I've heard of this before...and it is a bunch of hooey.

I have 11 "system engineers" on staff and have always called them engineers. The case I heard was in Texas...and as I recall, it was tossed out.

You might try google.com to search on this case.

Good luck with your big head engineer!

Petard

Not so fast, y'all. There may be something to this. I haven't heard of an actual legal case--in Texas or anywhere else--but I have seen the Texas Attorney General's opinion no. JC-0525, dated July 9, 2002, from then-AG John Cornyn to the Honorable Warren Chism, Chair of the Texas House of Representatives' Committee on Environmental Regulation.

Here are a couple of excerpts:

" . . . [A] private corporation may use job titles and personnel classifications to classify an employee as an 'engineer' and allow the employee to use that title internally. However, an employee, not licensed under the Act yet classified as an 'engineer' in a private corporation, may not represent to the public that he or she is an engineer, i.e., by using that title on business cards, stationery, and other forms of correspondence that are made available to the public. Unless an employee of a private firm is a licensed engineer, the employee may not use the title of 'engineer' on business cards, stationery, and other forms of correspondence that would represent to the public that the employee is a licensed engineer . . . ."

And further, " . . . The Texas Engineering Practice Act, article 3271a of the Revised Civil Statutes, does not allow an in-house employee of a private corporation, though classified internally as an 'engineer' or under another engineering title, to use the title of 'engineer' on business cards, cover letters, or other forms of correspondence that are made available to the public."

This may fall somewhere between urban legend and the statutes that ban spitting on the sidewalk. I've never heard of anyone being investigated, much less sanctioned for a violation. Nevertheless, this letter is making the rounds in refining companies and in oil & gas exploration companies in Texas. It's probably being buried deep in the in-boxes of the lawyers, though.

Naturally, different states will have different rules. If this AG letter is valid, it looks as though you can call someone an engineer internally, but you may not be able to present him or her as such to the public unless the engineer holds a license. Hmm, maybe you'll have to provide HIDDEN parking places!

Happy Friday, y'all.

Don D

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-11-02 AT 11:02AM (CST)[/font][p]Our 'engineers' that aren't degreed have a job title of 'technician'. For example on our sheathing lines we have 'Sheathing Process Engineers' and 'Sheathing Technicians'. The degreed engineer is obviously higher paid but both are integral to the process. I don't know of anything that would preclude us titling them both as engineers, or for that matter as scientists. You aren't fraudulently passing anyone off as having a specific legal title or license to practice. Your complainer is wrong, IMO. If such were the case, those headed to jail would be those who employ Sanitation Engineers, Locomotive Engineers, Amusement Ride Engineers and Sporting Event Traffic Engineers. Tell your delusional employee to remove his ego from his sleeve.

HireFire01

At my last job, the Engineers all demanded to have their own designated parking spots. The rest of us had to be bused in from another site because there was no room left....they sure are high maintenance employees.

Don D

You are SO correct. Engineers are who I think of most when say, "Don't let the process become the objective." They are often so deeply mired inextricably in their anal processes to such a degree that they totally lose sight of objectives. Plus they demand a white horse, a parking space and a weekly shoe-shine. We have a very simple capitol project process requiring a few paper exercises one must go through to get approval for the expenses engineers often recommend. It takes a five foot crowbar and nine hundred foot pounds of torque to get engineers to move past this simple paper requirement and move on toward real objectives. I believe these processes of theirs are actually taught in engineering classes. And then there's the 'accounting mentality'. And then there's the Sales Mentality that requires different font and logo and texture on business cards. Come to think of it, the H.R. Specialist and I are the only people here who are not mired in the insanity of these mental processes, and I'm not real sure about HER! Let me know when I can leave my cell and take a stroll in the courtyard.

ritaanz

Holy Cow! I hope my engineers don't see this. Mine actually smile and say "Good Morning". Of course, they have their own entrance into the building, come and go as they please,and have lunch brought in so they can "engineer" their projects which look to me like Spider Solitaire. But I'm told, they have the ability to leap tall buidings in a single bound and stop a speeding bullet. Whata bunch.

Parabeagle

After reading the postings in this string, I can't tell you all how happy I am I don't work with engineers!

However, in a previous existence I spent a lot of years working with lawyers, so maybe I did my time in purgatory already!

Cxjo

Perhaps to REALLY rub some salt in the wounds you can tell Engineer #1 that you will henceforth be changing YOUR title to "HR Engineer"

Don D

Changing from working with lawyers to working with engineers is a bit like going to Heaven.

Parabeagle

I suppose you're right. My ulcer is much better and my hair has stopped falling out and turning gray ever since I stopped working with lawyers.

Paul in Cannon Beach

Wow! I had no idea engineers were so difficult to work with. You would think that getting to drive the trains around would be kind of fun.

Paul

pecohr

Good one! xclap

sonny

You laugh, but as a VERY little girl, I learned that my Dad was an engineer..my disappointment was significant when I figured out that he went to an office everyday vs. riding the train.

HRGirl

The engineers I work with must be exceptional! They are the best bunch of people I have ever met. Yes they have quirks and are demanding at times but they are also the most outgoing, fun loving and generous group!

Lola815

I agree. The engineers that I work with are all so nice but quirky. A very different bunch of guys. But they can't be all that bad because I married one of them!

MAF

Would you then say a person who obtained a Masters in Systems Engineering from JOhn Hopkins is not entitled to call themselves an engineer? The federal government in contracts will specifically ask for a systems engineer. When a company offers such an employee with their bids, are they then committing fraud?
Must be Monday morning.

phbair

Well, Rob, you're a whole lot closer to Pennsylvania than you are to Texas. Fact is, in Pennsylvania, it IS against the law for a person, even with a degree in engineering, to "hold himself out" [sic] as an engineer if s/he is not a PE! Credit the State Board of Professional and Occupational Affairs and the power of the PE lobby in Pennsylvania. It goes without saying that this law has played havoc with our civil service classification system that previously used the title "engineer" generically as most everyone did. We've had to change everything, from class and position titles to business cards. If you're interested, you can see an unofficial copy of our wonderful state registration law - the Engineer, Land Surveyor and Geologist Registration Law - at [url]http://members.aol.com/DKM1/63.Cp.5.html[/url].