day late and you know the rest

LeeR · July 2004

if the powers that be want to turn a buck with forum then they have the right to limit access to those who fork out the money, the rest of you who want something for nothing just need to pay up or quit your sniveling. this is a capitalist society.

AZHR · July 2004

Somehow or other, I "missed the memo" on the new restrictions to the Forum. However, when I received my email this morning, explaining that I would still have access...I went to the Forum and noticed a few threads from Forumites who will no longer have access. It's unfortunate that so many people will no longer be participating. However, my take is somewhat similar to LeeR. I find it hard to believe that folks can't find a way to justify less than $300/year to continue their participation in the Forum. If the boss doesn't want to, pay the $300 yourself, it's less than a class at a Community College, and alot more valuable.

szemcumo · July 2004

I too have been biting my tongue wondering if I had missed something. Don't understand why paying formites are so upset that others who are not paying are getting for free what we are paying for. If access WAS free, why was I paying for it? If it is no longer then pay up or move on but the blaming and cross words and the poor pitiful me attitudes, well sorry, but I will miss those that are gone, but I still have to get my employer to send in the check every year. It is the nature of the game, very seldom do you get anything for nothing. Hope I haven't offended anyone.

System · July 2004

Well, szemcumo, it's like this. There are givers and there are takers. There are winners and there are losers. The takers eat well and the givers sleep well. A loser says 'that's not my job' or 'he didn't pay' but a winner says 'let me help' or 'come along with me.' It never mattered to me one bit that someone else was getting something for free. Those getting 'freebies' were givers and became my friends. I value their opinions and each one's experience - they were givers and, in my opinion, winners too.

Of course I'm a 'paid up member' but it's doubtful I'll find time to post here very much; I don't have the same heart for it. Eventually a new group may evolve and the forum may survive. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

ray a · July 2004

Sam, go out and buy a new pair of shoes - you'll feel better tomorrow morning. The face of the forum will change, but people like you will also keep it vibrant. You must continue.

System · July 2004

SHOES? Where? Forum? What forum?

Pork · July 2004

For everyone's education, I just renewed my subscription and will be here for $197.00, that, of cousrse, includes a $50.00 professional discount because my account has been in force for 5 years or because of fact that ML Smith likes BBQ'ed PORK.

I recommend that all participatants who are beyond the FRAY of the non-subscibers dialogue and not invited to continue under a trial membership and subscriber participants, to remain on the side until the smoke clears. I hope each of you will continue to post your concerns for HR issues; I assure you there are plenty of us out here to provide usable information and additional resources that you will consider worth while and well worth your money.

Hope this information helps! Be looking for that $50.00 professional discount on your next subscription renewal.

Welcome to the HR Forum, regardless of what you have read over the last few days/weeks this is still the best HR information center in the chat world.

"DANDY PORK"

Whatever · July 2004

Here, the $50 professional discount means you're seeing the psychiatrist when you should be working.

Don D · July 2004

It's being overlooked, in this particular discussion, that the subscription is not simply to participate on the Forum. The only free thing was the Forum. I doubt many employer's would sign off on a request to join a chat board. The subscription is for the website and its myriad restricted venues and the newsletter, as I understand it. There are some things that non-subscribers have never been able to access. So, it's not merely the Forum that the money pays for. The Forum was simply free to all.

lnelson · July 2004

I am a subscriber and have been for about 3 yrs although only been involved in the forum for about a yr. The subcriptions I receive have been very helpful along with the subscribers area on the website.

I hope all others will remain and continue to give and get the best we HR professionals can to make this stay the best HR forum.

Don't give up the ship yet.

JMO,
Lisa

Pricehcs · July 2004

It's quite an interesting study to see the many fractures and fissures created by this little exercise. For so many of us, the internet has always equaled 'free' and it is very impressive to see how rooted in the human subconscious this has been placed, whether it is online banking, mp3 files, merchandise taxes, etc. Yes, it seems to be a fairly flimsy argument that we couldn't come up with <$300 for a newsletter subscription, but, quite honestly, the motivation to do so has no doubt fled many of the participants. Issues such as this one create an environment whereby a (relatively) anonymous message board will struggle to overcome. For you see, our principles are now involved, and one doesn't easily separate themselves from their principles. To paraphrase an earlier comment, 'the passion to post here is gone.' I do not dispute the value of the information that I have gleaned from this site, however seeing some of the positions taken and comments made in regards to the subscription services by those very individual bastions of knowledge take away from my assessment of their original clout and jugdment. I think the ideal way to engage in these forums is to lurk for a period of months, observing the information flow and the quality of recommendations, source by source. Once one has a good feel for the capabilities of the participants, they are more confident in their engagements with the board. Anyone lurking over the past month or so will certainly be disillusioned with the gang here... I'm trying to stay away from 'we had such a good thing going, only to see it ruined...' but I guess the long story short (too late) is that I'll probably return to sporadic posting and meaningful lurking until my interim pass expires...

#1 thing a consultant shouldn't say: "I could tell you the answer right now, but we're committed to a three month project..." #-o

POPEYE · July 2004

Pricehcs -

Could you give us the condensed / non-consultant version of what your post says? Just kidding but it did spark my memory back a few years when I was involved with a consulting firm and some of their reports and findings read like federal law or regulations.

JM in ATL · July 2004

It's going to be sad to see so many go, but if you can, I do recommend a subscription.

I really enjoy my monthly newsletters plus this forum. I joined for the newsletters, this forum was a bonus.

I hope you will all do what is best for you and your company, but I do hope that you find a way to stay.

Hope to see you all... tomorrow!!

ray a · July 2004

Funny, I've heard how some of the other fora are a bubble-gum pop song, kind of bland, ho hum. This forum is a well written symphony full of flourishes, embellishments, turns, tension/release, pianissimo, fortissimo (and every dynamic in between), marcato, legato, dolce, drama, and emotion.

You want bubble-gum pop from the 70s (1910 Fruitgum Company) or do you want a Hector Berlioz symphony?

Don D · July 2004

Or sometimes a handful of fat guys with longnecks in sleeveless t'shirts with kazoos and washboards.

System · July 2004

Add one German-Serbian-Redneck Woman who plays the spoons and a comb.

(Now officially hijacked).

ray a · July 2004

Stop it you philistines.

Don D · July 2004

Watch it Ray! Ann is still doing traffic control. The Philistines could be annoyed with your remark. Or did they get wiped out by locusts?

ray a · July 2004

It's OK, Don. I said it with my NY accent.

But, that does pose an interesting dilemma. The word philistine, used as a noun or an adjective and with a lower case "p", is derivative of the Philistines, a biblical-era people who inhabited an area near present day Israel. It was presumed they were culturally ignorant so their name has become associated with boorish people who have no appreciation for the arts. Was I guilty of political incorrectness? Should that word be banished from our vocabulary?

Parabeagle · July 2004

xI-) xI-) xI-) xI-) xI-) xI-)

Pricehcs · July 2004

I took my own advice when I originally arrived here. Starting about 6 months ago, I read many of the frequent poster's replies to the 'issue du jour' and developed an appreciation for the knowledge base of the collective participants. If my lurking had began in mid June, I would instead have viewed frequent pi$$ing contests between posters and the site administration for issues that yes, had substance, but the ultimate stubbornness of both sides to defend their position to the bitter end ultimately would cause me to question their judgment. From a communication perspective, my biggest pet peeve is avoiding one way communication. It seems so many of these issues could easily have been head off early on. My point being, I would submit for your consideration that if I was new here in June, I wouldn't have warmed up to you and the MANY other sources of quality HR advice, as the venom, ego and boorishness from the recent disputes would have quickly turned me off.

As for sporadic posting, I believe I am simply fortunate enough to not have as many issues as others on this board. I attribute it mainly to the demographics of my current employer (they are a low maintenance bunch). I have been in more industrial settings in past lives (and may return again some day) and certainly can empathize with many of the issues on this board from that, but quite simply, my questions are always on a needs-based occurrence. Compared to many here, I would suggest that they are sporadic. The qualities of the answers have generally been more than satisfactory.

I hope the board survives nicely. My original position of being sufficiently 'newslettered up' from other sources hasn't changed, and despite the last 30 days, my opinion of the board hasn't either.

#1 thing a consultant shouldn't say: "I could tell you the answer right now, but we're committed to a three month project..." #-o

Balloonman · July 2004

All of your priorities are screwed up! The important thing is, LANCE WILL BE WEARING THE YELLOW JERSEY IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES!!!!
This will, barring a crash, be what he wears the rest of the Tour De France as he wins a historic 6th in a row!

My $0.02 worth!
DJ The Balloonman

System · July 2004

Aaaagh! Don't give away the finish -- I'm gonna watch the replay tonight on OLN.

James Sokolowski
HRhero.com

Balloonman · July 2004

James good man. [url]http://www.olntv.com/tdf04/[/url]
This site gives current status throughout the race each day.

My $0.02 worth!
DJ The Balloonman

Don D · July 2004

I thought it was a team sport and he was just part of the Postal Team. It ain't about Lance is it?

Slumpy Boy · July 2004

Test

ray a · July 2004

Slumpy, you pass.

ritaanz · July 2004

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-20-04 AT 11:15AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Viola Sir Pricey! Written just as a honest-to-goodness antagonist would. It's a shame that your observations are so narrow.

The point is NOT whether the "venom, ego and boorishness from the recent disputes would have quickly turned me off". The focus should be on the ability to disagree, have a difference of opinion and the ability to challenge a mind-set or point of view.

In the end, you have your perception of the Forum and I have mine.

Pricehcs · July 2004

In fact, I enjoy spirited, fact based discussion (read arguments) perhaps too much myself! However, it is fairly simple to see the tone of various thread progressions flow in the 'let me make my point for the umpteenth time, how can you not see this you idiot' vein.

Hopefully my closing paragraph from my previous post was clear, but to be sure, let me make my point again!!! FORUM=GOOD, PERSONAL ATTACKS=BAD. Yes, I can laugh at myself as well!

PS. Thank you for the knighthood. A new high for me! I'm pleased to make your acquaintance. When can I visit the queen (or did I just do that?) Please laugh WITH me...

#1 thing a consultant shouldn't say: "I could tell you the answer right now, but we're committed to a three month project..." #-o

Don D · July 2004

Ritaanz: The gentleman did, in one fell swoop, give us his advice, told us he followed it and rolled out his analysis. While concluding that 'personal attack' (which I call spirited back and forth), is 'BAD', he managed to mention that some of us had entered pissing contests, were stubborn, venomous, had ego problems and were boorish. What was that he said again about personal? I'm still trying to understand personalities who will weigh in with their analysis of people rather than posts. As if they've received a calling to sit in the bleachers and judge. Interesting. Perhaps it takes knighthood. x:-) Ahh, the beauty of the Forum.

Pricehcs · July 2004

Guilty as charged... Guess I do like to be argumentative after all... The first step is admitting you have a problem? Seems I fit right in...

#1 thing a consultant shouldn't say: "I could tell you the answer right now, but we're committed to a three month project..." #-o

day late and you know the rest

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