Another termination...

HRanna · July 2003

I just finished terminating an employee. It was a good decision, we had proper documentation, and everyone agreed that it was the only recourse we had. So when will this awful feeling go away? After I've done this for 25 more years? And why do my managers and supervisors (who were so vocal about this employee) seem to clam up during these meetings and leave it all to me? And what is wrong with people today that I now have to have someone walk me to my car just so I'll feel safe going home tonight?

Thanks for letting me vent.

Leslie · July 2003

I don't think it ever changes. You always feel bad at some level, no matter how righteous.

And maybe that's a good thing.

Parabeagle · July 2003

I've done countless terminations since I entered the field in 1985 and I never get used to it. I've done 10 in the last two years with this company and there is only one I didn't feel badly about. If you ever get numb to the process, it's time to reexamine yourself, I think. Sorry you had to go through this today.

ray a · July 2003

If the bad feeling goes away and it becomes routine, then it is time to look for a new job.

Over the past 2 years I have had several "layoff" (understand, we use that time to do some weeding), and many "firings" usually for attendance. The toughest was 2 years ago when I had to escort 4 of my peers to their cars, one of whom I had known for over 10 years.

Once you get "comfortable" doing the termination interviews, you will want to do most of the talking. I always tell the supervisors/managers to keep their mouths shut unless I ask for their specific input. That way I control what is being said and how so I can be sure there won't be any legal problems down the road.

Rockie · July 2003

I've done this for about 20 years and it does not get any easier. Even when a person is a god awful employee and you have given them every chance in the book, there is still a part of you that knows someone is going to suffer because this person doesn't have a job any longer.

The worst is when you have co-horts that you have to lay off in a reduction in force. They feel somehow betrayed because you didn't (couldn't) share this information with them sooner and they didn't see it coming.

When you stop caring, it truly is time to find a new line of work.

Whatever · July 2003

I agree with ray a about controlling the termination interviews. However, I cannot imagine ever being in the slightest way comfortable with doing it. The worst are layoffs because the employee has done nothing wrong. It part of the job and someone has to do it. Unfortunately, it is me.

ray a · July 2003

I put the word comfortable in quotation marks as a qualifier. I agree, you never really get comfortable doing terminations, but it does become easier, at least for me, to do and maintain my composure. I had one several years ago that the lady broke down in tears and since I had known her for several years, it was especially difficult for me - I felt the tears forming in my eyes. But, the comfort level is to the extent I trust myself to be professional, maintain my composure, and say the right things.

HRanna · July 2003

Thanks for all the support. And thanks for reminding me that this is something that should not be easy. Given the choice, I would not want to become hardened to the fact that we are here because of the people. I started today by helping out a few people, so in the end I can only hope it all balances out.

ray a · July 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-30-03 AT 09:24AM (CST)[/font][p]During mass lay offs (30-40) the hardest part is seeing the look on people's faces as I walk by - in some cases sheer terror. I am the angel of death in their eyes on those days. I need to be very careful what I say, any joking on my part is considered tasteless. It is a feeling of being all alone.

After one particularly difficult layoff, I had one lady come up to me and give me a hug because she knew I needed it.

blw · July 2003

Several years back I was doing layoffs at multiple locations. By lunchtime the word was out. When I walked into the first clinic I went to after lunch, they looked at me and said "We know why you're here. Who is it?" Makes you feel so bad. That day was my first layoff and it was a doosie. I cried in my car on the way home.

Try to remember the good moments and the people you are helping.

SDDCHR · July 2003

I try not to take it personally but it's hard (as we all know). Unfortunately, people think we're the "bad guy" when this happens. I just keep telling myself "I'm not the one that's terminating them...they are!"

scottorr · July 2003

I am never comfortable doing a term. One way that I have become more comfortable with it is always keeping it consistant and remaining on the subject matter. I usually question myself for about two or three days afterward but always end up feeling like it was the best thing in the long run. Another thing to keep in mind is that most people see it coming. As others have said lay offs are the worst. I was laid off once back at the beginning of my career. My boss actually broke down in tears when she told me. I saw it coming so I had flaoted my resume and had another job with in four weeks. I think she felt worse than I did. Good luck and use the forum. No one understands better than your other formanites!

HRQ · July 2003

I've never had to do a layoff and may need to after October, as we are likely to lose state funding for one of our educational programs. This will affect around 20 of our 400 employees. I dread this happening and will probably post for advice as the time arrives. I still feel hopeful that everything will turn out OK. There is a chance!

As far as terminations go - I feel much (better? less bad? whatever) when the employee has had many chances to improve and choses not to, such as attendance, and they know the termination is coming eventually. I really feel bad when the employee should know the term is coming due to previous warnings but they are still shocked to learn they are going away.

ray a · July 2003

HRQ, if you do have to lay off as many as 20, please post ahead of time. the support you get will be helpful. I wish I had had this support group 2 years ago when we layed off and terminated close to 60 people.

Dutch2 · July 2003

"when the employee should know the term is coming due to previous warnings" ...this is the key for me. That is why it is so important to make sure that each counseling form that is written clearly states what the consequences will be if this matter is not taken care of in a timely manner. We have a very common progessive discipline program so everyone knows for the minor stuff they get so many chances to fix their problem. Of course for the major stuff the first step may be termination.
Good luck
Dutch2

karenosi · August 2003

HR - I just assisted in a layoff of 9 (of 150) employees yesterday. I was the lucky one that brought the employee to the HR Manager's office for the termination meeting. The first time I entered the Engineering trailer, all I heard was Hey! What are you doing, come for a vist, etc. When I came for the second employee no one said a word. When I brought the first employee back to his line manager to collect his belongings, I was avoided. When I went to collect the third employee I walked to his cubicle, and he was not there. I turned around to look for him and all I saw was heads peaking above the cubicle wall. That employee was not in. Word spread like wildfire that the employee was to be laid off, even before I made it back to my office, thanks to sametime messaging.

This was not the first layoff I have been involved in, but it was the first one that I was visibly involved in. Once it was over, a number of employees came by to give me hugs and support. They also told me that I handled my part with great sensitivity. A number of employees simply stuck their head in my door to ask if I was okay. It is not an easy process and I don't ever want to become comfortable with it. Good luck in October, and lean on your colleagues for support.

Nat · July 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-31-03 AT 10:34AM (CST)[/font][p]I've only been in HR for 10 years but the feeling is always the same - my heart pounds and inside, I'm a nervous wreck (although I never let the person see that). Some I was even glad to be rid of but the feeling I get having to tell someone that they no longer have a job, no matter what the circumstances is always the same. Don't let it get personal. I had to term 4 people in one day three weeks ago. Had the Tums and the Advil waiting for me afterwards. In my opinion, if that feeling ever goes away, it's time to get out of HR. Not saying that the feeling won't be more or less depending on the situation, but if it goes away, one needs to get out. If that happens to me, I will.

Shadowfax · August 2003

When that 'general' feeling goes away - look for another job! But, I had one that actually felt good, REAL good! Small operation, basically two clerical, one a long time (14)years trusted office manager and the other to help her. Owner/boss begins to suspect they are clocking in and out for one another and stealing his time. He sets up video (clandestinely) to observe the time clock, and it confirms his suspicion, as well as some other unaccpetable behavior. Before we get around to terming, they discover the camera, and it was a hoot watching them try to put objects in front of it to block the view. Well, at term, one is ashamed, sobs like a babe, apologizes, as any decent person would. The other, the long time trusted office mgr, goes beserk, threatens all sorts of mayhem and litigation, and simply reacts so differently than expected, I decide to inspect every little thing she takes from her desk and office. VOILA! The evidence of 14 years of pilfering and embezzelment and fraud. We got a many thousand dollar judgement, levied on her retirement fund, she went to jail for 8 months, and her husband divorced her! Sometimes, you just don't have to feel bad about terming a ee!

LarryC · August 2003

These posts are right on. I've been doing it for about 30 years and sometimes I go home and just cry. My wife doesn't even ask me " what's wrong". She knows. I always remember what Bob Hope said when asked if he still gets nervous on stage after all these years and he said, "The day that I don't have butterflies in my stomach when I go on stage is the day that I quit."

amyhedlu · August 2003

It is so assuring to find out that we all feel the same way. I've been in HR a few years but only as a manager for 1 year. This year I have had to do 2 sets of layoffs each with approx. 9 employees and they were all done in 1 day. Nobody wanted to be asked to come see me for days. Somedays you still get looked at as if you are the Grim Reaper!! It is never an easy thing to do but that is our job.

amy

Zanne · August 2003

I really can't add anything to the above posts, but I agree with them. You never feel comfortable terminating an employee. Even those who deserve it - because they are human beings, after all.

In the past 14 years that I have been in HR, I have tried to work on letting employees go with grace and dignity. Sometimes it works and everyone leaves, a little sad, but not demeaned in the process. Sometimes it doesn't work, but I tried.

Hang in there. It will never get easy, but will become easier as you find the methods you need to perform this duty for your company.

Zanne

jkb · August 2003

Next week will be the second to last lay-off since January, I will be letting 10 more employees go, that puts us down to 9 total employees, all but two of the final ee's I let go have been with the company for 6 years or more. I love'm all! After I get the final paperwork completed, it'll be my turn to say good-bye to me. OH this job! But it's been a good run, I've been with the company for 9 years, three years ago we had 325 employees. Sure hope the economy picks up soon.
I wish I would have found the forum sooner, it's been great. Thanks for all the good advice in the past months.

JKB

sonny · August 2003

Sorry for your troubles.. .best of luck to you.

Leslie · August 2003

jkb, I'm sorry. What in the world is the nature of your business that it could go from 300 plus to nothing so quickly?

My hopes for you is a new job in a new industry!

jkb · August 2003

Were in telecommunication, and it's a FAMILY business........

Leslie · August 2003

Now that really sucks. You're having to deal with a lot. Good luck, get resettled and come back and see us.

psrcello · August 2003

We are just in the recovery stages of a RIF of 37 employees that was effective July 5, due to the loss of a sizeable piece of business. We're a union facility, so the layoffs were done based on seniority. Last summer, we were in a frenzied hiring mode, and got some absolutely great employees - unfortunately, due to lack of seniority, they were all among the casualties.

Almost two years ago, we had a 50-employee RIF, including 8 salaried staff. I had only been here for 6 months, and several of the salaried employees affected had been here many years. It was extremely uncomfortable and awkward for me to sit face-to-face with these dedicated employees and explain their severance packages. Their reactions still haunt me.

After it was over, my boss sent me a wonderful e-mail, thanking me for my professionalism on that "difficult day", and told me he knew he'd made the right decision hiring me (out of 50+ applicants for the position). It was as close to a hug as I'll ever get from my boss.

It never gets easier, but if you can hang onto your own compassion and dignity, you can ride it out. There are so many great things about being in HR, and I wouldn't give it up for anything - even to avoid the "difficult days".

System · August 2003

I am in my office bawling my eyes out right now. An employee who was extremely likable but skating on thin ice for awhile now was just terminated for theft. She made herself a sandwich last night and the manger observed her not pay for it. She claims she left her money on the counter which violates all sorts of policies any way. I happen to know that she just moved into a new place and is supporting her mother.
She begged us not to fire her. Told us how much she needed her job etc and basically got hysterical. I then had to follow her while she gathered her stuff and stormed out. All this just hurts.

Whatever · August 2003

You did your job. Unfortunately, doing it sometimes is very painful. Having a good cry helps a little. (A Hot fudge sundae helps even more). You will get over this termination, but there is always another one somewhere down the road. Be grateful that you can feel. It may be more painful but it far better than being cold-hearted and uptight. xhugs

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