Unprofessional Conduct/ Need Replys
HRinGA
412 Posts
We are planning a termination for an employee with some conduct issues. He repeatedly overreacts to issues with foul language, in front of anyone and everyone. While we agree there are some procedural issues with workflow, we also agree that spewing a profanity laced tyrade is not the way to handle it. We've received complaints from co-workers regarding this and other behavioral issues. (silent treatment, sarcastic comments, etc)
We are trying to prepare for various responses he may have, with one being that he may state he has anger management issues or another type issue and then asks for help. While I may sympathize with that response, what are our obligations? His manager told him that if we had to have another discussion regarding his behavior, he would be terminated. So, here we are. This employee has been with us several years. His behavior was simply tolerated for a while, (works in remote office) until new management took over. New manager has had several conversations with him; this should be no surprise. FYI, here are some excerpts from others who work in that office:
-he's treated us all badly at some point
-makes for a toxic environment
-we've come to a grinding halt. No one can work with him.
-you never know when he's going to blow up. And then he's rude for the rest of the day when he's mad at someone.
We are trying to prepare for various responses he may have, with one being that he may state he has anger management issues or another type issue and then asks for help. While I may sympathize with that response, what are our obligations? His manager told him that if we had to have another discussion regarding his behavior, he would be terminated. So, here we are. This employee has been with us several years. His behavior was simply tolerated for a while, (works in remote office) until new management took over. New manager has had several conversations with him; this should be no surprise. FYI, here are some excerpts from others who work in that office:
-he's treated us all badly at some point
-makes for a toxic environment
-we've come to a grinding halt. No one can work with him.
-you never know when he's going to blow up. And then he's rude for the rest of the day when he's mad at someone.
Comments
I would call him in and begin the meeting with the termination. Have his final check ready and mail his personal items to him.
This should be no surprise since you told him the next time would be a termination. This is the next time.
Finally, if he talks about anger management, etc - it's way too late for any of that. He has had that opportunity in front of him for a long time. He wanted to find out how far you all would go and now he knows.
OK, I feel better now.
"Unless you see it, document that they said they documented the conversations."
SMace, glad to see that I am not the only one that has done this.
In my early years of HR I was burned on more than one occassion when a Supervisor or Manager promised me that they had everything documented only to find out that they did not.
Our concern is that he may tell us we're correct, that he needs help and can he go to anger mgt classes. We can do a mandatory referral to our EAP. I guess we're just gonna see how the conversation goes and make a decision.
Since you didn't use your EAP, is there anything in your employee handbook stating that referral to the EAP is mandatory? If you want to go ahead and terminate him just make sure you're not violating your own procedures written in the handbook.
Why didn't we act earlier to correct behavior?
Why didn't fellow employees raise issue?
Do the employees know that they have a responsibility to raise concerns not just for themselves but for the company?
Do we have the right training programs and complaint policies in place for this type of problem?
What was in this person's background that we missed when we hired him? Are our selection procedures where we want them to be?
I realize one problem does not make a trend. Nonetheless, it would be a good opportunity to see if there are things that happened in this case that are instructive for the future.
I think that you need to determne, BEFORE the meeting, whether you are going to terminate, or refer to your EAP. Trying to negotiate a compromise during the meeting, at this juncture, doesn't seem appropriate. He's been warned, several time it appears, and HE has failed to seek a remedy or to take responsibility for his actions - and he's had plenty of opportunites to say "I'm sorry, I have a problem and I intend to do what I can to get it under control" My personal opinion is that this lack of concern for his future at you company is indicative of an attitude that will never change, regardless of whether you get him into an EAP. I would terminate, which will also send the messgae to your employees that you will not tolerate other employees being abusive, unprofessional and noncommital about fixing thier own problems.
>it's nice to get someone else's point of view.
>I sometimes feel like I get stuck in a rut and
>wonder if I'm too quick to judge. I haven't
>shown much sympathy for anyone lately. The work
>ethic of some of my employees is pretty
>pathetic. And they whine about everything. I
>just want to stand on my chair and say "Suck it
>up people and do your job!!!"
>OK, I feel better now.
Sounds like your company is not good at dealing with performance problems. You know ignoring problems do not make them go away. Instead of doing nothing about it until one day you crack, help your supervisors identify the incorrect behavior, communicate the behavior that is necessary and get them to agree to change. If they will not agree ship 'em out.
As Gillian used to say, there is no such thing as problem employees, just employees with problems.
-he's treated us all badly at some point
-makes for a toxic environment
-we've come to a grinding halt. No one can work with him.
-you never know when he's going to blow up. And then he's rude for the rest of the day when he's mad at someone;
Your termination will be more defensible and you will be providing the employee more helpful information if you can provide specifics such as: "On January 29, at 9:00 a.m. employee said... "
After 20+ years in HR I have come to realize that some people really are clueless about how others perceive them. Telling someone that he has a bad attitude or is rude does not provide helpful information. You need give them the specific behavior, actions, words, that were perceived as rude or a bad attitude by others. Only then can the employee think about how he might have approached the situation differently.
I have over 400 employees to deal with and obviously, not everyone is going to have a happy ending. The statements from co-workers are vague. I didn't want to post the gritty details.
The bottom line is we term'd today. He understood, apologized, took a few parting shots at us and then left. It went as well as any termination can go. As my first post stated, his behavior was simply tolerated for a while until new mgt entered the picture. He was told by two different managers that his conduct cannot continue. I'm sorry, but I would think any reasonable person would know that constantly using the F-word towards others is unacceptable. And he was told specifically that. We were trying to prepare for every angle, with one of those being the EAP angle. I already knew what I was going to do, I just asked what would you say if he brought it up. Some of you answered my question and I thank you. Others kind of got off track and insinuated we handled it wrong from the beginning or that this one problem was indicative of larger issues. I hear you, but will respectfully disagree.
>track and insinuated we handled it wrong from
>the beginning or that this one problem was
>indicative of larger issues. I hear you, but
>will respectfully disagree.
I am one that took your message in another direction. I intended no disrespect. It is sometimes difficult to know the knowledge level of the HR professional asking the question on this forum or the maturity curve of the organization that has the issue. I intended to help and will try to moderate my suggestions or read more carefully in the future. I am glad things worked out for you and your company.
No need to apologize. It wasn't your post that hit a nerve. The list of questions you submitted were points well taken. We had already asked a lot of those questions not only to ourselves but the co-workers who were out there.
I'm sure we all have issues with our remote offices. Things happen out there that we're not aware of, at least not until the last minute. Same situation here. Folks were just chugging along until someone else stepped in. All is well in the world today, at least right at this exact moment.
I believe I said it sounds like your company is not good at dealing with performance issues. That was my opinion based on your comments. I did not intend for my advice to make you feel inadequate. Sometimes people need a wake up call to help them along. I sure do.
I was hoping my post would get you to think about the areas where your company can improve, not send you into a defensive frenzy. We can all improve.