Co. Party Intoxication - Disciplinable?

Catbert Evil HR Director · December 2005

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-22-05 AT 12:18PM (CST)[/font][br][br][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-19-05 AT 04:00 PM (CST)[/font]
UPDATE - At least one of the drunk girls slept consensually with one of the owners of the company at an after-hours party. Now, what the heck do we do to protect ourselves from liability? We have told the owner to have no contact with either girl. We would like to discipline on other matters (attendance) but are holding off so as to no look retaliatory. YES VIRGINIA, this stuff actually happens.
Below is the orginal question:
Sat. night, company party, cash bar, participation voluntary, 2 employees SHOW UP wasted - Million dollar question - Can the company take action? Nothing in the policy prohibits off duty, off premise intoxication.
GOOD LUCK, huh?
To answer issues brought up in responses -
Drove themselves. One of their boyfriends drove so there were no DUI's.
Both were very visibly drunk - no one else at the party was. One, especially, made an ass of herself. Other party attendees commented/made fun on them.
Definitely will address the judgment (or lack thereof). AND no booze, not even cash bar, next year at the party.

Crout · December 2005

What did they do to deserve discipline? If their behavior was off the wall, I'd say you can certainly address it, but if you want to write them up simply because they were intoxicated then it becomes a matter of fairness. Pretty much every person at your party who had two drinks was legally intoxicated. That's why you should focus on their behavior rather than their level of intoxication.

DB · December 2005

How did they get to and from the party? Without a legal charge I wouldn't discpline but I think addressing their poor judgement would be a good idea.

pork1 · December 2005

CATBERT: Unless your company published policy talks to conduct un-becoming an employee of XZY company, you would best be served to stay in the line of discussions on appropriate conduct and the example last Sat. night was way outside of the bounds. I would put a letter of instruction in their file and reference this discussion as an example of how not to act. From your letter of instruction you could then leap to discipline to whatever magnatude you decided to include in your letter of instruction.

Pork

Catbert Evil HR Director · December 2005

Thanks, Pork.
The most egregious acting employee called off yesterday with "the flu" and is here today. The more I learn (she offers the info.) about her behaviour and interactions with the owners during and after the party, I think she has dug her own grave and it is only a matter of time til she's gone. We are disciplining her for absenteeism at this point.
Happy New Year!

Crout · December 2005

You're going to discipline her for calling in sick on Monday based on your assumption that she was still hung-over from Saturday??? What work rule did she violate? Wow, you're lucky you don't have a union, although it's that type of overreaction that gives unions strength.

mbeam · December 2005

I'm assuming that they weren't paid for attending the party. Certainly agree that it would be worth having someone sit down with them and explain your expectations of conduct - could be they had no good examples growing up. Might want to point out to them whether they really want their behavior at this party to be what people remember them for when they leave the company? Depending upon the maturity of the people involved and how the message is delivered, it may sink in with them or may not but at least you tried.

Have seen some careers thwarted by inappropriate behavior and memories can be long - I know I've hesitated on recommending someone if they've not displayed the best sense while out in public. If they don't act appropriately when we're there how can we expect them to act otherwise when we're not.

Some people don't realize that "off work time" counts even though they're technically not on the clock for earning respect of peers and supervisors. They also forget the fact that some of these people watching their antics may be their future bosses (or could have been if they hadn't made such a fool of themselves at the co. party)

When we attend business funcions which to me are defined as those you attend as a representative of the company, we have defined our guidelines for behavior. Those who aren't able to act within these confines may be subject to disciplinary action and may be moved off the list to attend other events.

jitrbug · December 2005

We had this very same problem several years ago. We put one into a cab and thought we sent them home only to have them show up again about an hour later. Hotel security had to intervene before we could and had him arrested. The other, at the same party, tried to get into a one sided yelling match with her supr. and we quickly escorted her to a cab. Both where counseled the following Monday and banned from ANY company function that was held off-site or included alcohol. We could do this because it was our party and we have a policy regarding the expectation of EE's behavior when representing the company at any function - party/seminar/convention,etc., on site or off. With the stigma of not being able to attend future parties, they both left within months of the incidents. This policy has really saved our bacon several times, I highly recommend you make a similiar policy!

LarryC · January 2006

jitrbug, or anybody else out there that has one, may I have a copy of the policy regarding the expectation of EE's bahavior when representing the company at any function? Thanks.

jitrbug · January 2006

Not a problem...just private message me your fax.

LarryC · January 2006

Thanks, jitrbug, but your private contact info is all disabled. Can you enable it for me?

jitrbug · January 2006

Check your forum inbox...you should be able to reply back to me via that message.

WT · January 2006

It is difficult to make alcohol available with one hand (cash bar), and punish employees for consuming alcohol with the other hand. There are reasons that office parties have become legendary as alcohol does lower inhibitions. So if the employee has enough liquid courage to confront the supervisor he does not like or if the couple has enough alcohol to turn the workplace fantasy into a reality, the employer was complicit at least to a degree. People do all these things down at the local tavern every Saturday night but it is not connected with work. If the behavior was bad enough, address the behavior, but remember that alcohol consumption is often detrimental to the employer / employee relationship.

Whatever · January 2006

To sort of change the thread - but there is a bigger issue - a drunk female slept consensually with one of the owners at an after-hours party. Why talk about "punishing" an employee, when an owner's behavior is so out line. Unfortunately, at this point, I have no solution to this problem.

SMace · January 2006

I wasn't going to waste my energy on this one, but since you brought it up Whatever....

Add in a sprinkle of not disciplining someone who should be, because she slept with the owner???????

Unless the discipline is handed out haphazardly, which it sounds like it is, it should not matter a hoot whether she slept with the owner or George Bush. If she deserves discipline, give it to her.

Whatever · January 2006

I can just see it now. "Members of the jury...my client was drunk. We don't deny it. Her er took advantage of the fact she was drunk and not in complete control of herself and slept with her. Maybe, because she was drunk, she was not that good. So what does he do, he disciplines her. Suddenly, she is an attendance problem. Suddenly, she shouldn't have been drunk. Notice, that the defense never said who paid for the drinks at the after hours party." I could go on, it looks like a retaliatory discipline even if she didn't offer a formal complaint and appearances tend to be very expensive.

TN HR · January 2006

The problem here begins at the top of your organization. The girls show-up at the party smashed, yet the senior leaders present do not immediately order them off the premises via cab ride? Then, to make matters worse, one of the owners bangs at least one of the drunk girls, parhaps both? You're worried about a retaliatory termination charge? HA! I hope the owner doesn't end-up having to defend himself criminally against a date rape/unconsensual sex criminal charge!

WT · January 2006

On a brutally practical level, this whole mess will probably blow over (if you let it). I would guess that the young lady or ladies in question are thoroughly ashamed of their behavior and would like the issue to go away. I very much doubt that they are proud of being drunk or having casual sex. I would hope that the man is also ashamed, but maybe not. That is the sad part about office parties and alcohol. All players must go back to work and face one another on the following work day. This is a case, as I mentioned before, where the employer is not without guilt. In fact, it might be impossible to find that person without sin to throw the first stone. Further, if you check the law (in the Old Book) you will find that both the man and the woman were to be stoned. Are you prepared to punish the man for his bad behavior as well?

Gillian3 · January 2006

If you discipline the employee, but the owner has no consequence(fat chance) a sexual harassment charge will have retaliation added to it. The charge will probably arrive after the disciplinary action takes place. Your defense will be "everyone was drunk and/or stupid". Juries hate retaliation, more than they do the original charge. If you want to, though, go ahead.

Catbert Evil HR Director · January 2006

Since I have not chimed in for a while and I am the person who posted the dilemma - here is the status for those who need some drama:
It appears that after the company party, the two female (drunk) employees and the owner met up at a swingers' club. Some time later that night, the three had a three-some. Things erupted at the office because the owner bragged about the sexual relation and the women then decided to deny it. Circumstances do support the fact that the three-some did occur.
One of the women has found another job that pays better and has put in her notice. She has been relieved of her duties and will be paid the two weeks. The owner (which is one of 5 owners) has been put on administrative leave indefinitely. The remaining female is going about her job. I am currently looking into phone records to make sure there is no more contact between the owner and the 2 women as his attention is not wanted by the women and we do not want a harrassment claim to be filed.
Tune in next week . . .

SMace · January 2006

I can't figure out where I heard this story before.....

Oh, yeah, "Dear Penthouse letters, You'll never believe what happened after our Christmas party....

E Wart · January 2006

I hadn't written before because I couldn't understand your wanting to discipline the female employee.
My feelings were that I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole. Why would female be disciplined for something done during her own time, even though she might have looked the fool.
However, it looks like to me that you better worry about sexual harrassment claims big time!! I would try to remove the company in any way possible from this situation. I am sorry that the owner doesn't want these ladies to call him. He put himself in this situation. Not you or the company. He should just tell them not to call him. If he needs to keep records of calls this should be his business. Boy I am glad this is you and not me. I wouldn't have any sympathy with this situation.
E Wart

mbeam · January 2006

Something you and your attorneys are likely looking into - to me it's pretty simple - enormous lack of judgment on the part of the owner.

It raises the next point about his ability to manage anything if he not only makes poor decisions like this but is stupid enough to broadcast what he did - would be looking to move him out now!

If he has an employment contract, there should be some type of statement relative to behavior. This should fall into that category as a breach of the agreement and would terminate/buyout based on the exercise of that clause.

Good luck to you!

Catbert Evil HR Director · January 2006

We're still fighting the good fight. One girl has left, but the other still is "working" if you can call it that. Never worked a full 40 hour week since she started here, personal calls on company time/phone, spuradic work product = just a gem. But we are not "getting within 10 feet" from her at this point. Owner's been written up and on admin leave. I thought my problems were bad until I read "hostile work environment's" dilemma. Hate to be is that supervisor's shoes.

Co. Party Intoxication - Disciplinable?

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