Hiring Advice

ray a · June 2005

Just interviewed a guy who spent the last 8 years in jail for 1st degree sodomy. He paid his debt to society and now is on parole. We are a mfg plant, no kids. What are your thoughts on hiring someone like this? Yea or Nay?

LivindonSouth · June 2005

Sodomy, by definition, could land most of us in jail as it does not necessarily limit itself to the first thing that occurs to you. In Mississippi, Alabama and Texas, among other states, unless recently overturned, sodomy includes consensual heterosexual oral sex between a married couple.

My my your application does go (shall we say) in depth.

It's my assumption that he did indeed 'pay' during that eight month stay. Otherwise, Raymond, what has this got to do with the job you have to offer? My guess is, nothing.

ray a · June 2005

It was 8 Years, not 8 months. We ask if the applicant was convicted of a crime - he volunteered the details. My take also it doesn't have anything to do with the job. And I agree sodomy could take several forms, so there may be some risk of him attempting to molest another ee.

LivindonSouth · June 2005

You have people guilty of sodomy running all over the place, in your place of employment, in your church, at the grocery. He just got caught and convicted. I do not think it is my job as an HR professional to sniff out who might or might not have a gleam in his eye for another employee. If they act out, that's a different matter. Eight friggin' years? Man!

Whatever · June 2005

So what are the details (or at least as much as can get past the forum police). Obviously, 8 years is long time (heck--murderers have been known to spend less time in jail and child molesters sometimes don't even go to jail) and seems to indicate that the sodomy was not voluntary.

dchr9203 · June 2005

If it were not for his "confession", would you hire him? If so, then throw out what you now know about him personally and make your decision based on his ability to do the job.

HRinNH · June 2005

That's ugly. I wouldn't hire him.

However, he would be expected to follow the rules of conduct like any other ee in your facility. He sure knows what his fate would be if he did it again and were caught.

marc · June 2005

Hey, I have watched enough "Law and Order" to think that the crime to which a person is convicted is often the result of a plea bargain - so perhaps the letter of the conviction is not the reality of the offense. Just a thought.

The statistics generally related to recidivism are something like 90% - which is not good odds. I think it comes down to the guy's character. He has paid his debt to society as to doing the time, but society will make this guy pay for the rest of his life - problems with work, problems with friends, family, etc. Does he have the strength of character to start over, be strong, and not repeat whatever behavior got him in trouble?

Assuming he can do the job, can he do it and not bring other baggage to work, as LivinDon's post suggests?

lorrie · June 2005

Can you ask him about, or otherwise obtain, general details? I agree that if this was a consensual activity then the guy got screwed. But I would be surprised if that is the case. First degree, and eight years, tells me it was probably not consensual, and it could even be that he was charged with rape or something worse, and pled down to sodomy. I'm not familiar with the difference between first and second degree, or aggravated, etc.

As for yea or nay: I do agree that people CAN change, but the odds are so bad that I would lean toward nay. However, I would consider whatever details from the incident, along with his previous work history (prior to jail) and any recent references, including a call to a parole officer or someone like that. If your work environment is not a place likely to entice a repeat (such as a child care facility for a pedophile), and the other information gives you any better feel for the guy, and he is at least as good as the next appropriate candidate, then a yea would not be out of line.

TN HR · June 2005

Here's the definition, taken right out of Webster's:

1: Copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal.

2: Noncoital and especially anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.

How in the world you discern between degrees I have no idea. Does it have to do with the number of squeals comin' from DA HOG HOUSE?

OK, seriously, the potential exposure here is far too great even for me. I would have to pass. Deciding factor for me is the length of the sentence. This was either not his first time at the rodeo or he pled down from a more serious charge. Either way, he's out.

Gene

LivindonSouth · June 2005

Lorrie said 'if it was consensual, he got screwed'. So, now we have taken this visual to a different level. Putting your definitions together with Lorrie's conclusion, I'm not sure I'd want this guy at the summer picnic. Who referred this guy Ray, the boys down at the concert hall?

ray a · June 2005

I was thinking about the same as you, Gene. A sentence of 5 to 10 is a long time and he had to serve more than the minimum so he was perceived a threat apparently and not released as early as possible.

I did a little search and found this on NY: People v. Onofre in 1980 ruled the heterosexual sodomy laws were unconstitutional. In 1986 the courts decided that the 1980 ruling did not apply to homosexuals therefore, they could still be charged and tried under the old sodomy law. The sodomy law was ruled completely unconstitutional in 2000. This candidate was convicted in 1998 two years prior to the repeal of the law.

LivindonSouth · June 2005

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-16-05 AT 08:09AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Ray: I hate to say this, but, I think your interest has gone way too far afield. You have gone from a simple quandry over offering a job to investigating sodomy laws as relates to herosexual and homosexual couples. For God's sakes man, give it a rest. And what's with this Freudian activity of closing your eyes and attempting to predict his future behavior based on your perception of his past behaviors and your unfounded conclusions as to how long he spent in the prison system and why and what might have happened to him while there and what rate of recedivism might kick in and when might he re-offend and will it be at work in a reclined or prone position? I've never seen this level of 'tilt' in an HR professional. Well, not in the last couple of days anyway.

What if your applicant had been convicted of peeping in the dorm window while a sophomore in college? What are the odds he might do it again at age 35 and what has the NY Supreme Court had to say about this and when? Boy! Do you get this twisted-sideways when you have real, legitimate BFOQ considerations rather than imaginary ones?

I suggest you get a grip.

ray a · June 2005

Don, you seem to have an inordinate amount of interest in this thread with your 4 posts and last diatribe. You need to get a grip.

LivindonSouth · June 2005

One man's diatribe is another man's reason. In post number 1, I'm asking you what this has to do with the job you have open, but we get no answer. In post number 3, I'm telling you people who have committed what the law refers to as sodomy are everywhere, even in your church and I'm tryhing to advise you to act on behaviors, not fears and suspicions, but you start researching NY case law on fudge-packing and descending into your Freudian attempt to reason-out when he might act out again. In number 10, levity overcame me and I wanted to know if he was referred by the hornblower's union, and still suspect he was. In number 12, I'm simply trying to calm you down and hoping against hope that you might soon join the world of the rational, but you won't. For God's sakes, Don't hire the man or hire the man. And move on. We don't need to visit the NY Supremes' discussion of who frigged Frank. I knew what you were up to when you posted originally. x:-)

ray a · June 2005

I suspect your entire motive for participating on this thread was based on levity. Your correlation between musicians and sodomists confirms it. You are really in the gutter this time.

Kent · June 2005

Thanks Don, I thought that was, well.... beautiful. I still have a bit of a tear...

LivindonSouth · June 2005

Kent: Ray doesn't know we've known each other for 20 years. He tends to get upset and heated when challenged. But he's resilient and will survive. You will notice that none of the questions posed by any of the posters were ever answered by Ray. He only went off on tangents that were not job related. This was a rather classic example of how NOT to make a hiring decision. (You missed a good fishing trip two weekends ago).

Whatever · June 2005

Forget about when the sodomy law was completely ruled unconstitutional in NY. The fact is that the DA's have not been interested in prosecuting sodomy between consenting adults in NY State for quite a while. I have to believe that there is more to story.

ritaanz · June 2005

Toots, I would give him a chance. But.....first I would speak to his parole officer and try to get a feel for the type of individual you are dealing with. That convesation may make up your mind.

ray a · June 2005

Thank you to those who took my question seriously.

Don claims to know what I was up to when I initiated this thread. I have no idea what his assumption is nor do I care because it is meaningless. Very simply we interviewed a candidate that I had concerns over. My only desire was to know what others would do in a similar situation.

Kent, I'm glad you think Don is so humorous. Understand, he knows that I am a musician and his initial dig and followup comment were meant to be a not so subtle jab implying I associate with deviants or maybe I'm one myself. Enjoy the gutter with him.

My decision was made yesterday afternoon before I left the office for the day.

marc · June 2005

What was it? Please let us know.

Thanks in advance.

Kent · June 2005

Jeez Ray, lighten up!

You have to admit it was humorous. Heck, I just read and laughed again.

Hiring Advice

Comments