Come on now, guys, the last 7 or 8 posts are the type of thing that discourages new posters, who might actually benefit from the expertise of this group of people. If Jeffrey does't have an HR Department he probably needs this forum more than most, especially if his bosses have already decided their course. If he has decided, he needs to know the ramifications to decide if he wants to continue on that course of action.
Just because he isn't in HR doesn't mean he doesn't know about Title VII. Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't, but that's conjecture.
I'd also bristle at being called a liar, whether or not I am (was) one.
I work for county government, with a degree in Business Administration and Paralegal studies. If anything, we should know better, but our breakroom is filled with nutrition magazines from a local health food store, brochures from the Community Services food pantry soliciting donations (along with the Muscular Dystrophy container), applications for Miss White Cloud, fliers advertising fund raising luncheons at two local churches (hey, we only have two restaurants and no cafeteria, lunch is IMPORTANT) and advertisements for Weight Watchers, the date for the next Red Cross Blood Drive, the date of the next Teamster's Union meeting. It's the Weight Watchers stuff that most people dislike, for some reason.
Are we asking for trouble? Probably. Has anyone asked that anything be removed? No. Do I have the authority to change this? Not exactly, I can give an opinion to the Board of Commissioners that it should be limited or removed, and they decide.
Sometimes I just want to hear that I'm right (or wrong), or am looking for a way to justify something I feel bad (or good) about. Sometimes I just want another opinion because I am wrong regularly, or there is an "angle" I haven't thought of. Sometimes my sense of moral conviction gets in the way of my good sense (and legal education). And sometimes I don't post because I know other posters have been criticized.
Annie, I need to reply to your post. There are many posters and only a selected few are, as you put it, criticized.
I have no idea how often you visit but have you seen the other comments that Jeffrey has posted on other threads? The several that I read put me on alert. He came across as a maverick and seemed to enjoy poking fun.
I welcome a good discussion and if it involves putting ones true feelings out in the open, so be it. If that constitutes criticism or censure, then I believe it's all a matter of perception. You will find things to be just the way you think they are.
Annie: Every once in awhile a participant, such as yourself, declares himself/herself referee for the day and insists that everyone conform to his/her manner of deportment. That's fine, just don't be disappointed when people continue to post their feelings, their perceptions, and, yes, once the thread runs itself ragged their lighter sides and then it will degenerate to jocularity. It always happens.
You might want to reread the first 15 or so posts during which good advice was given, ignored, then ridiculed by the questioner. It then became quite apparent that he did not want the help he had professed to be seeking and he had no intention of following anyone's professional advice.
You may also want to rethink your comment about 'being called a liar'. It is OK for you to tell me that you do not believe me or that you think I did not tell the truth. I will not think that you have called me a liar and I won't be offended. I will accept that as your opinion. So, return that kindness. If I know that you are a liar, I will tell you that you are a liar. If I think that you misrepresent the truth, that is what you will be told.
And, yes, I suggest you drag a large trash can into your breakroom and thrown most of that stuff out. x:-)
"Dandy Don" I sure hope you took an opportunity to view the article posted by Jeffery. After doing so maybe some of us professional HRs should get our heads out of the sand and search for a means for diversity in the work place. If the auto industry and medical professionals (which the article discusses) are seeing a benefit for companies to find an accomodation in the religious arena; there might just be a growing religious cause for an opportunity for us all. As one line indicated companies hit with religious litigation "throw the baby out with the bathwater"!
For Jeffry, I would encourage you to live your life in the world of work as an example of your belief in your Lord. If the working world is represented by a "freedom of religion" as demonstrated by the great carpenter, a prophet in some religions and a Christ, the son of God in others the best of enviornment might be realized. I certainly don't preach to the employees; however, they recognize me as a religious person and call upon me for prayer at all gatherings. The employees also seek me out for discussion of religious sorts of things and the use of my experiences and wisdom. So there is a place for religious activity, but we must all be aware of the need for those that do not believe to also exercise their rights of dis-belief, and we are wrong to seek a religious bases for the "world of work".
May God Bless each of our days and life in the world of work, also!
PORK
Got to run, today is my day to deliver the "Golden Juices" for todays breeding activities, which is the beginning of the joining of the eggs and sperm and God given life of "baby pig" and the source of our income for both the company and the employee.
Very good article. Our directors have talked about ways to bring spirituality into the workplace. I like the doctor's statement in the article about the difference between being guided by your beliefs and ethics and prosetylizing in the workplace. One is NOT the other.
I suggest that you re-read post 37. My post and this article say the same thing. Your company should regulate the distribution of literature, and only allow it to be done on break in the break room. To do less would continue to disrupt the work environment.
From your web site: "Q. Can I share the Gospel with co-workers at work? A. Employees can engage in religious speech at work as long as there is no actual imposition on co-workers or disruption of the work routine.19 Generally, no disruption of the work routine will occur if an employee's witnessing takes place during breaks, or other free time."
If you have employees reading material in the john, then I would think breaks would be extended and lost productivity would be the result. Is this really what you want?
Im not proposing you abolish it all together- just limit the time and place so it doesnt impact production and cause a disruption.
I have read what you suggested. I suggest you re-read it. It supports everything you have been told. Unfortunately, you do not appear to want to hear anything you disagree with. I have no problem giving advice to someone (who after careful consideration)will reject it. I do have a problem with giving my advice to someone who will reject it without giving it an iota of consideration. Therefore, I, personally, am finished wasting my time on this thread.
If I understand the situation correctly,the tract is in the toilet stall, perhaps on top of the toilet paper holder? Seems gross to me, and certainly isn't sanitary. I wouldn't touch it. And, why would anyone want to put it there anyway, do many people see the light during bowel movements?
Touching anything and leaving it behind for others to pick up afterward while conducting a bowel movement is unsanitary. Jeffery you are obviously entrenched in your position on this subject even though the overwhelming majority of the HR professionals on this website have advised you against it. Do whatever you believe you are doing right and leave it at that. If you revisit this site with similar topics be advised that you will get the same kind of response. If you need advice on different topics I, for one, will be happy to help.
Jeff: At the risk of re-offending the offended, you have carried on and on and posted all sorts or religious stuff and links on this thread as well as others. You're really obsessed with the notion of religious tracts in the restroom. Once again, I offer up my humble opinion and belief that you are certainly the gentleman who placed them there. How could anyone reasonably form another opinion? If you could, you'd post them to this site. You asked initially for advice. You got sound advice based on a multitude of years in the business by a large number of professionals. You didn't want it and you indicated you have no intention of using any of it and you ridiculed the advice quite a few gave you by dismissing it all as political correctness. Now we digress to a discussion of how much light enters the toilet area and whether or not taking a dump is company time or free time. Well, to answer that inquiry, it is not free time. You are on the clock, you are expected back on the job as soon as the paperwork is done and it would be a violation of my company policy to sit awhile and read anything, anything, other than the "please flush" sign. x:-)
This is one time that I am in agreement with "Dandy Don"- thanks for the laugh. I personally could care less what your views are about gay marriage, abortion, religion, etc, but you have spent some time spewing your stand on each through out the forum. You seem to have readily discounted the fact that your company has received a complaint(s) about the literature. Quite honestly it didnt surprise me what direction you chose to pursue after hearing about your track record with pornography and the like.
This is an HR forum to ask and answer HR questions. If you have any that you really want professional opinions on, please let us know and we will be happpy to offer professional advice.
Jeffrey you have now truly proven your ignorance. Don is no liberal democrat. I almost fell off my chair laughing when I saw that. Just because he doesn't preach his belief system at work doesn't mean that he would be a Kerry supporter. Or maybe you know that and are just trying to get his goat. Oh my, this has turned hilarious!!!!! I can't stop laughing either way. xclap Don, I can't wait to hear your response. Or ritaanz, what do you have to say?
Comments
I wonder if he understands the concept of personal liability? Probably not if he cant understand why pornography is not ok in the workplace.
Just because he isn't in HR doesn't mean he doesn't know about Title VII. Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't, but that's conjecture.
I'd also bristle at being called a liar, whether or not I am (was) one.
I work for county government, with a degree in Business Administration and Paralegal studies. If anything, we should know better, but our breakroom is filled with nutrition magazines from a local health food store, brochures from the Community Services food pantry soliciting donations (along with the Muscular Dystrophy container), applications for Miss White Cloud, fliers advertising fund raising luncheons at two local churches (hey, we only have two restaurants and no cafeteria, lunch is IMPORTANT) and advertisements for Weight Watchers, the date for the next Red Cross Blood Drive, the date of the next Teamster's Union meeting. It's the Weight Watchers stuff that most people dislike, for some reason.
Are we asking for trouble? Probably. Has anyone asked that anything be removed? No. Do I have the authority to change this? Not exactly, I can give an opinion to the Board of Commissioners that it should be limited or removed, and they decide.
Sometimes I just want to hear that I'm right (or wrong), or am looking for a way to justify something I feel bad (or good) about. Sometimes I just want another opinion because I am wrong regularly, or there is an "angle" I haven't thought of. Sometimes my sense of moral conviction gets in the way of my good sense (and legal education). And sometimes I don't post because I know other posters have been criticized.
Annie
Great article, check this out. [url]http://www.detnews.com/2004/religion/0404/05/c01-111837.htm[/url]
I have no idea how often you visit but have you seen the other comments that Jeffrey has posted on other threads? The several that I read put me on alert. He came across as a maverick and seemed to enjoy poking fun.
I welcome a good discussion and if it involves putting ones true feelings out in the open, so be it. If that constitutes criticism or censure, then I believe it's all a matter of perception. You will find things to be just the way you think they are.
You might want to reread the first 15 or so posts during which good advice was given, ignored, then ridiculed by the questioner. It then became quite apparent that he did not want the help he had professed to be seeking and he had no intention of following anyone's professional advice.
You may also want to rethink your comment about 'being called a liar'. It is OK for you to tell me that you do not believe me or that you think I did not tell the truth. I will not think that you have called me a liar and I won't be offended. I will accept that as your opinion. So, return that kindness. If I know that you are a liar, I will tell you that you are a liar. If I think that you misrepresent the truth, that is what you will be told.
And, yes, I suggest you drag a large trash can into your breakroom and thrown most of that stuff out. x:-)
For Jeffry, I would encourage you to live your life in the world of work as an example of your belief in your Lord. If the working world is represented by a "freedom of religion" as demonstrated by the great carpenter, a prophet in some religions and a Christ, the son of God in others the best of enviornment might be realized. I certainly don't preach to the employees; however, they recognize me as a religious person and call upon me for prayer at all gatherings. The employees also seek me out for discussion of religious sorts of things and the use of my experiences and wisdom. So there is a place for religious activity, but we must all be aware of the need for those that do not believe to also exercise their rights of dis-belief, and we are wrong to seek a religious bases for the "world of work".
May God Bless each of our days and life in the world of work, also!
PORK
Got to run, today is my day to deliver the "Golden Juices" for todays breeding activities, which is the beginning of the joining of the eggs and sperm and God given life of "baby pig" and the source of our income for both the company and the employee.
[url]http://aclj.org/publications/work/wplace2.asp[/url]
I suggest that you re-read post 37. My post and this article say the same thing. Your company should regulate the distribution of literature, and only allow it to be done on break in the break room. To do less would continue to disrupt the work environment.
From your web site:
"Q. Can I share the Gospel with co-workers at work?
A. Employees can engage in religious speech at work as long as there is no actual imposition on co-workers or disruption of the work routine.19 Generally, no disruption of the work routine will occur if an employee's witnessing takes place during breaks, or other free time."
If you have employees reading material in the john, then I would think breaks would be extended and lost productivity would be the result. Is this really what you want?
Im not proposing you abolish it all together- just limit the time and place so it doesnt impact production and cause a disruption.
Jeffery you are obviously entrenched in your position on this subject even though the overwhelming majority of the HR professionals on this website have advised you against it. Do whatever you believe you are doing right and leave it at that. If you revisit this site with similar topics be advised that you will get the same kind of response. If you need advice on different topics I, for one, will be happy to help.
Why bother contributing to a thread that is starting to irritate with all these links to other so called religious sites.
If Jeff's agenda is to create a religious movement (no pun intended)he is in the wrong church. x;-)
This is an HR forum to ask and answer HR questions. If you have any that you really want professional opinions on, please let us know and we will be happpy to offer professional advice.
You should run for office. Kerry needs a running mate.
I can't stop laughing either way. xclap
Don, I can't wait to hear your response.
Or ritaanz, what do you have to say?