"Dead man walkin'"

Jaded · February 2004

I have fired, laid off, etc. probably close to 1000 people over the course of my employment and have always prided myself in doing the deed with the most respect and dignity possible.

Just within the last month, I have laid off over 15 people. Last week I gave a 3 week notice to a manager that he was being laid off due to lack of work. He is a wonderful employee, nice family guy - the perfect person you'd like to have on your team.

Yesteday, as he walked passed me in the hall, the following words popped into my head...."Dead Man Walkin'"....it scared the hell out of me!

Last week, one of the men I laid off came walking (unannounced) into my office (with his 8-month pregnant wife and 2 year old toddler) wanting to know when I could call him back to work.

Yes, I am looking for another job myself...
and I am really doing some soul-searching asking myself if I want to stay in HR. I know all the good things we get to do and I have rationalized them all many times in the past. However, with the economy being what it is, I see a trend where people are just becoming more "disposable" these days. Money is tight and profits are down and what usually gets cut are the lower end jobs (where the people need the money the most!).

Thanks for letting me vent a little on Friday the 13th!

HRQ · February 2004

Jaded, don't leave HR, just find another industry that doesn't experience layoffs. (This is the ONE time that high employee turnover is a helpful thing. When they leave and business slows, just don't replace them.)

I've been fortunate in that I've never had to lay off a single soul. Hope I never have to.

Balloonman · February 2004

"I have fired, laid off, etc. probably close to 1000 people over the course of my employment and have always prided myself in doing the deed with the most respect and dignity possible." Sucks to be good at doing the dirty work. Think how many of them would feel had you not handled it that way. Sounds like you are coping through humor.
I don't know you that well, but hey keep your head up, and your eyes open if you see a new opportunity..............but realize how a person is let go is pretty important. I have been downsized 3 times, and it makes a difference.
My $0.02 worth
DJ The Balloonman

marc · February 2004

How long have you had your screen name? As a quick non-professional analysis, you have been feeling the way you described for some time.

Going through bouts of economic downturns will bring out these kinds of feelings in even the most hardened human being. It is a defense mechanism that we adopt to help insulate us from the pain and sorrow that accompany the actions of the people that are responsbile for carrying out the necessary plans that accompany the tough times.

I have been involved in more than one "workout" situation and tend to get very cycnical and even more analytical than normal - it is one of my ways of coping. Perhaps you need some time away from the pressures to decompress a bit and take a long look at the reasons you entered the field. I would bet that there are lots of good things you like about the profession that you have not had a chance to focus on recently.

Give yourself a chance to grieve for the people that are impacted by the economic necessities of the situation and hold your head up for delivering the news in the way you described. Find that new job that lets you get back to things you like doing.

Stay strong and good luck.

Jaded · February 2004

Thanks for the pep talk guys....it really helps!

Marc, you hit the nail on the head about my screen name. I am totally burned out in my current job (been here for 15 years).

Don D · February 2004

HR ranks in the top 10 of occupations affected by the 'depression factor'. I think the rest are: Funeral Director, Dentist, Sanitation Engineer, the guy who works on stuff like Imodium, Proctologist, the guy who demonstrates those large shovels at the horse track, and I forget the rest of the list. But HR's often up there.

Whatever · February 2004

I hope you stay in HR. At times the job is depressing. I have always hated layoffs. That is because I have tell good people that through no fault of their own they are unemployed. However, these people need to be told by someone who understands rather than by just a pink note with their check. A person with your heart is needed. And yes, we all have probably gotten depressed at some time(s), but if we didn't, we wouldn't be good at our jobs.

Jaded · February 2004

Thanks, Whatever. I appreciate your post.... especially the part about having a "heart"...afterall, it is Valentine's day!

Here's a survey for you....

How many of you check an employee's birthdate prior to setting a termination date?

Don D · February 2004

Exactly one year ago tomorrow I was brought into the loop about 16 salaried employees who were going to be caught up in a reduction in force. Foour of them were out on FMLA, two had almost 30 years and another was a man raising two boys under four because his wife ran off. I remember talking about all of this stress on the Forum and the Forum helped me immensely and provided great comfort. Some of you remember my story about Will, the guy who I had to lay off who asked me to help him with a resume (30 year man). He's the one who told me he had enjoyed working there and said, "Can you help me do a resume. I don't write so good". There simply ain't no words to get you through things like this. Take comfort in the fact that you are who you are and at least they will read you as honest and warm and good even though you're delivering a tough message. It never gets easier. It never feels better. The next one is as tough as the last one and nobody sleeps that night or the next. I was able to escape that place myself and changed jobs last March. A couple of those guys on FMLA and one lady on FMLA at the time still have not found work. I hear from them and the reason I hear from them is that I handled the situation like you are handling yours, with compassion, warmth and what little helping hand I could give them. Otherwise It's a Bitch with a capital B.

Cinderella · February 2004

Don I remember that day when you wrote about the man who asked for help with his resume. It actually made me cry.
I work at a company where 25 and 30 year "work anniversary parties" are not uncommon. For some that I work with, the "relationship" they have with this company is older than their marriages and the ages of their children.

Jaded · February 2004

Don:

Thank you for taking the time to write your response and share your experiences; it really helps to know that there are many HR professionals out there who really do empathize with the ground troops.

This morning I got a call from the guy whose wife was 8 months pregnant. He called to tell me "her water just broke and we just got to the hospital...she's back there now and I hope everything goes okay..just wanted you to know." He called me back later today to say his new daughter, Abigal, was born (all 4 pounds of her). Mom and baby are doing fine.

HR is like a little slice of life...you get every conceivable situation pointed your way and along the way, you get to share in the lives of those with whom you work ...the good along with the bad....

I am glad to hear that you did "escape" from your last employer; I am hoping to "escape" myself when the right job comes along....and when I do, I will remember the Abigals born along the way.

Cinderella · February 2004

I agree with Whatever. You are making the world and the HR profession better through the way you handle lay offs and terms. I have never had to lay anyone off, but I have had to terminate.

mwild31 · February 2004

Hi Jaded - I hear you and there are times when I ask myself the same thing - what am I doing staying in HR? These days usually come around when the tough stuff is happening, reductions in force, firings, discipline meetings, after a particularly heart-breaking round of interviews where the applicants are deserving but are just now learning that union wage scales don't translate into private wage scales and the applicants subsequent cries, "but I can't make $12 an hour as I have a house payment, a car payment, the orthodontist to pay for my kid." In fact, today, one of our long-term ee's came back with a new prognosis on his prostate cancer, it's still terminal, but instead of 1-2 years left, he now has less than 6 months. Yeah, sometimes I ask myself the same thing.

I realize however, that it's the tough days that make me better and stronger in HR. I don't know it as I'm going through it (I'm not Mother Theresa! x;-)), but I do realize it in hindsight - when another issue pops up & I can deal with it more effectively, etc. In your soul-searching, make sure you separate the tough stuff your going through AT YOUR COMPANY vs. what you want to do as far as your profession. As you know, and probably counseled others about, there are better companies out there for folks, and a better company is one in which it's a right fit for the employee as well as the company. I guess I'm saying, make sure if you switch careers, you do so because HR wasn't for you anymore, not because the company you're with spoiled the experience. Good luck to you.

ritaanz · February 2004

I had a college professor tell us once that if terminating an employee stopped bothering us, to get the hell out of HR. When you lose the compassion there is no way you can have the empathy to deal with the situation at hand.

I, too, have lost count of the number of terminations, reduction in force, job eliminations, etc. I have done. As Don said, it never gets easier. By now, I probably dread the terminations more than I did in the past. But, that does not mean that I would consider earning a living any other way. The pluses in this job far outweigh the negatives.

I have a hard time trying to come up with an industry or company that would never have a termination or layoff. It is the price of doing business.

Rockie · February 2004

Jaded: I think all of us who have been in "the business" any length of time go through these highs and lows. As others have said, if you lose the empathy for the other fellow, the it IS time to move on.

I've always tried to treat people I have had to lay off or terminate with the utmost respect and help them in whatever way I could.

This is the world of HR and it is fraught with these types of feelings. Concentrate on the good that you do for your employees and realize that there are things that come about in business that you personally don't have any control over. It would be the same at ANY company in this day and age.

Good luck and treat yourself to something nice.

mbeam · February 2004

Also think of it in terms of "if it wasn't me doing this, would my replacement care about these people as much as I do". They may not be as willing to go that extra mile which can make all the difference not only to those leaving but to those left behind watching to see how their former co-workers are treated.

It is painful and it doesn't get easier from a gutwrenching, can't sleep the night before, hate passing them in the halls and smiling knowing what's coming perspective. However, it does from the fact that you have experience in what you can do for someone and can plan in advance how best to help them.

Best of luck to you. Having been through this before, have many times been very proud of how those going through this have behaved. The cases where someone behaved unprofessionally were far outnumbered by the many who did and went above & beyond what we expected.

HR in Okla · February 2004

Interesting discussion to stumble onto today. I drove through McDonald's this morning with an obvious trainee at the window...mature woman, and thought to myself that I'm ready to take my paltry age 62 retirement (in 6 months) and work at McDonald's to supplement rather than continue in my present job the additional 4 years I'd have to for full SS benefits.

I too have had my share of terminations, and hope I've made a difference in the lives of a lot of employees.

Thanks for the words of encouragement to Jaded. I've appropriated them for myself today too.

ray a · February 2004

Sounds like most of us at one time or another have thought about walking away from HR. Being an amateur musician, I have often thought how great it would be to play professionally, especially in a major symphony orchestra. But, as I interact with many professional musicians, some who are living out my dream, I realize they have their own set of problems. And they sometimes think about chucking it all and finding a 9 to 5 job. It is very difficult emotionally when we have to terminate the employment of people, especially if it is through no fault of their own. And when there are a group of people, I feel like the Angel of Death. But, no matter how badly I feel about what I'm doing, I realize it is infinitely worse for the one getting terminated. Life goes on.

HR in Okla · February 2004

That's true. Our jobs are the last to be eliminated. I've dealt with so much change, 4 CEOs in 5 years. After a full year, I can't figure out exactly where I stand with the most recent one. I've never felt insecure about my position before! However, with this guy, the fact that I'm still here says it all.

A pat on the back, or "good job" once in a while would go a long way though. Sometimes we have to give those strokes to each other.

Thanks guys!

SherryAnn · February 2004

Last summer we went through a tough lay-off, but like you I tried to handle it with as much respect and understanding as possible. I assured those involved that I would assist them in getting set up for their unemployment, did referrals to a temp agency that we have a good relationship with, and have attempted to do recalls whenever possible--and there have been a couple of takes on my offers.

My cynical feelings come from watching several of the companies around me. Recently, my husband's company announced that they had increased profits nearly 46% in 2003 over 2002. This exceeded the goals that had been. However, for whatever reason, in the next sentence upper management announced that it just wasn't enough, that the 401k matches promised (if goals were met) would not be given and that there would have to be more layoffs and everyone would just have to try harder.

This is the kind of HR I can not go back to. I left a company that had much of the same philosophy and I didn't realize how bad it was until I got out of it and found a company who's culture fits me so much better. It didn't mean that I escaped lay-offs, but at least I knew that the reasons were honestly driven and that the employees' wellbeing and ease into a difficult situation could also be addressed.

I know this doesn't give you any advice, but I guess reading your message just brought out some old feelings.
Good Luck and look for a company that fits you better, if that is part of the problem.

Jaded · February 2004

SherryAnn: Thanks for writing. It does help hearing from those who have faced similar experiences and have dealt with it in a positive way.

Carey · February 2004

We are going through lay-offs now. We have always had business cycles in our industry, so a large portion of our workforce is used to the leave of absence, but they're also used to being recalled when the next assignment came along. Now, however, they won't be recalled as quickly (many not at all) and since we brought in a consultant, many of our overhead functions are being outsourced or shipped overseas. My dept has always processed the exits, but now we are starting to process our each other (other HR groups) so it's starting to hit home. I'm seeing people in my group much more upset than ever, so am getting EAP involved. We are also offering more support for those being laid off in terms of help with resumes and referrals to agencies, etc. We are finding ourselves helping those who haven't received their notice yet, because they want to be prepared and we can't blame them. In the past, we've outsourced outplacement services, but now we're doing it ourselves because there's no money for it. I think it's a sign of the times, but it gets increasingly difficult to support the management decisions to those employees going and those who are staying. We are working through it, and thankfully my management is great and supports our wanting to support the employees. Now for the CA dig - just be glad you don't have to worry about the CA WARN Act - monitoring for that at times has been my full time job. We did trigger it for close to a year (having to give 60 day notices to those going out on LOA) and now I have to track to be sure we don't trigger it, so I have to stagger the layoffs accordingly. Just venting....very therapeutic.

Don D · February 2004

Almost exactly one year has passed since I dealt with this issue on a very personal basis. Here is what was posted last year when I needed the suppor tof the Forum. The Forum members came through for me and I hope we have come through for you and for others experiencing the same or who might.

Don D, MS

02-28-03, 03:46 PM (CST)
5311 total posts

"All Else Pales"
I dare not post this in the Hr de Har section because it's far from funny. It's not a question either. Perhaps just a vent at the end of a very tough week. I had sixteen Reduction in Force meetings today ranging from managers to engineers to customer service to technicians to a driver. This included a two hour pre termination session with managers discussing everything from 'expecting the unexpected' to successfully dealing with the emotional issues that will come up in the termination conferences. As those of you who have gone through these things know, you never are able to predict how any single one of them will go and they never get easy and God forbid they ever get routine or that they have absolutely no affect on you. The toughest of the day was a guy named Will. Perfect gentleman, understood perfectly the decision to eliminate his position due to economic conditions and restructering of the department. Listened to it all with hands folded and a nice understanding half-smile on his face. Couldn't have gone better for me (I guess), but certainly not for Will. At the conclusion of the meeting, Will says, "Can I ask you a favor". "Sure Will", was my response. "Mr. Don, I been here all my life. Can you help me with a resume. I don't write too good." Have a good weekend guys. Don D.

Jaded · February 2004

Don, the Forum came through for me in a big way....it really helps hearing what others have gone through and probably will continue to go through from time to time. I'm staying strong thanks to all of you who were there for me.

In the meantime, I will continue to look for another company who isn't into the "disposable" people mentality.

I also do all the recruiting for the company. It is going to be extremely hard (in my mind) to generate the "salesmanship" necessary to land the best recruits when I know that six months later
(because proper projections weren't done) I may have to sit sheepishly at my desk and tell them, "sorry, we can't use you any more."

For me, I have to believe in what I'm doing; right now, my "convictions" just don't match up anymore with this company. Thanks to all of you for helping me see what I needed to see.

Don D · February 2004

I found myself in that same 'recruitment' paradox with my old company. I would go through the torturious motions of flying people in, developing and presenting the offer letters, handling the relocation and touching all the bases in between. Then three to ten months later they were sitting at my round oak table asking me "Hey man, why didn't you tell me about all this when you were bringing me in here?" What could I say. Every time it happened, just to get the smell of the company off of me, I almost wanted to go take a shower and wash down with kerosene. It happened over and over to the point where I knew I could not be as ethically devoid as the owners of the company and I had to hit the 'eject' button.

"Dead man walkin'"

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