Job Abandonment - Need help before terminating today!!

franfields · October 2003

Would you consider it job abandonment if an employee did not show up at a client for which they were scheduled one day and then did not show up at the office the next day? It took repeated calls to get in touch with the employee to finally get them to return the phone message mid morning the second day. Actually, I left a message saying if I did not hear from them within an hour I would begin calling their emergency contacts because I was concerned for their wellbeing. They said they would be in later on the second day and then called two hours later to say they would not be in. There is no job abandonment policy in writing. I would like to use Job Abandonment as the cause for this action.

bamahr · October 2003

I terminate for job abandonment, absenteeism, job performance, take your pick. What was the excuse for not showing at the clients office? I would terminate for any of the above, if the excuse was not something that kept them from a telephone for a day and a half.

Whatever · October 2003

Also, what was the excuse for not calling in.

Betty I_O · October 2003

In the context of our internal policies, this would not be job abandonment (we use three scheduled work days no call/no show). We would not terminate the employee. Rather, this would be cause for disciplinary action under our Constructive Discipline Policy. Before making any determination, we would be sure we had the employee's explanation for what happened and then proceed accordingly. The level of discipline would be based upon consideration of all of the facts surrounding this incident.

franfields · October 2003

She slept through the first day. She slept most of the second day and then, when she called to say she wasn't coming in after all, she said she was going to get on the treadmill rather than clean up and come in because that would make her feel better. It is now 9:10 am and she still isn't here and hasn't called. Our hours begin at 8:00 am.

ritaanz · October 2003

Good to see you back Fran. Does this employee have a history of poor attendance? This behaviour, from her explanation, sounds odd. If she were my employee and this was an exception to her usual personality, I would counsel her and document it. Otherwise, if this occurs periodically, I would terminate.

franfields · October 2003

Thanks for the welcome back. I am in a new position. I think I have gone to the dark side.

This employee has been a problem for a long time but it is just recently coming to a head. I am afraid she may have a substance abuse problem and may also be depressed. I also think she may have had a relationship with one of the partners in the past.

Don D · October 2003

It's sounds to me as if she should be terminated. Rather than taking a close look at her past performance, I would concentrate on the consequence of her having not shown up at the customer's place. That's the key to me. This could cost your business reputation or customer orders or could lose you a client in some contexts. The last place I worked is being sued, however, for terminating a female salesperson who did not show for a customer appointment. Turns out she was molested in the hotel the night before and was too rattled, obviously, to go for the appt. The terminating VP was even aware of this event and terminated anyway. They will probably lose that one. But, in the event where someone chooses to sleep in and do treadmill duty and seems as lackadaisical as your employee sounds, I would consider her a definite liability.

Shadowfax · October 2003

Unless she had an FMLA or ADA reason (and I wouldn't ask) for sleeping in the better parts of two days, I'd be rid of her yesterday for any noe aor all of the reasons others have posted. And Betty, I know there are a lot of 3day no report policies out there, but why on earth? If someone can't come or call the first day (preferably before start time) they have no job to come to tomorrow. The only explanation acceptable is "I died" , or if, they can prove they were held incommunicado by a band of alien banditos, or they were trapped in their car at the bottom of a gulley, I may reconsider. But, they have no job except on my terms. I don't understand how companies get by for 3 days not knowing wheterr he'll be in tomorrow or not. Oversleeping a few minutes, or even a couple of hours I can appreciate (once or twice a lifetime) but over sleeping all day and part of another make me damn sure I don't want or need that employee - without speculating on the why she overslept.

Betty I_O · October 2003

There would be no question that given what the facts are are in this case, we also would terminate.

Balloonman · October 2003

Fran,
Welcome back, hopefully you have brought your ax with you! Sharpen it up, and solve one problem right now, while you can quickly and cleanly. You probably won't have to even pay unemployment, consider that a bonus!!!!
My $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman

marc · October 2003

We have a two-day no call, no show job abandonment policy, but why go there. Don is on target advising you to concentrate on the 'dis' shown the customer.

franfields · October 2003

So she calls at 9:45 and leaves a message saying she just got up and will get on the treadmill, take a shower, and then come in around 12:30. I was going to call back and tell her not to bother coming in but she has our computer and teh managing partner says we can't terminate without telling her to her face she is not a model employee (okay, I paraphrased a little there).

Crout · October 2003

Given the circumstances I would terminate. Don't even ask the question "why." You just focus on her behavior and her statements. I believe the three-day standard for termination by the way, came about as the result of court and/or Arbitrator decisions. Three days seemed a reasonable time for someone who has dropped out of sight to get to a phone and call in. I seem to remember an Arbitrator decision that reinstated a terminated retail employee who missed work for two shifts without calling in. The EE was a long-time employee with a pristine record, and had a valid reason for not calling.

pecohr · October 2003

I agree totally with Don D, this is a serious performance issue. Your business depends on how your customers view your company. If they see you as unreliable then you've been impacted in a negative manner by this ee's performance. Unless there are some mitigating circumstance that prevented him/her from notifing you and allowing for a replacement then I would term.

mwild31 · October 2003

Wow - I seem to be the only one here that has a 1 day policy. If an employee doesn't call in or show up for 1 day - I term.

I agree with the other posters - let this person go - I'm sure you have set policies for calling in absences and even for scheduled start times - doesn't sound like she followed either. Don' panic about the face to face - meet with her and spell out the issues. Good luck.

marc · October 2003

I must admit, I am curious how some ees develop this lack of work ethic. What world does she live in that makes this kind of behavior acceptable?

HRsage · October 2003

I would most likely term but I would want to make sure that FMLA didn't apply.

You stated that you think she might be depressed. This reminded me of a recent case where an ee was fired for sleeping on the job for 10 days. He sued stating he should have been granted FMLA for his depression. The company wasn't told about his depression prior to the term, but the court felt that the ee's change in behavior (sleeping on the job) should have signaled the employer to inquire and initiate FMLA. Yes, we have to be mind readers now too.

I know this is not the same situation, but it is similar in that she may have depression and you just don't know it. I would want to cover that aspect prior to terming. I'm ready for my blasting now, I'll be under my desk if anyone needs me.

franfields · October 2003

Here's what we did. She finally came in at 2:45. We met with her with detailed documentation including the no-show/no-call, etc. and told her we could terminate her but would pull her from her regular assignments and have her work with one of the partners through November while she looks for another job with a zero tolerance policy and with other stipulations with which I won't bore you. If she violates any of the conditions, she is terminated immediately. She signed the document as did the partner and myself. We figure she will violate this agreement by Monday but believe we covered our legal bases with what we put in writing.

Shadowfax · October 2003

You mean 'only because your'e in Ca and everyone knows about your federal bench out there' blasting? You're right, you can always find a screwed up case somewhere to support anything - bad facts make worse cases, but the 10 day sleepover seems outrageous. That's why I sai I wouldn't ask about FMLA or ADA, I think the better law is still that the employee needs to make the first suggestion of something wrong before all of the employers duties are triggered. I never want to know the why of ...whatever, performance, performance, performance. Keep your eyes glued on that and you avoid most of our HR 'problems'.

E Wart · October 2003

I am not sure what this person's regular duties are... but I would certainly think twice about having someone who didn't keep appointments and didn't contact customer representing my company.
Also, sounds as if you have bent over backward to give her another chance, I am not sure why. (Hope she isn't working with the partner you said she might have been involved with.)
I would have sent her a certified letter that said if she didn't return to work by whatever date that you would consider it self resignation. (Not termintion because she made the decision not to work, not you.)
I just wonder if another employee does this, are you going to give them the same chances? Looks as if you might have to to be consistent. I wouldn't mind working for your company if I could stay home and sleep and/or use the treadmill and not report to work or a client when expected!!
I don't think you have heard the last of this person.
(I would make sure that she hasn't mentioned anything to anyone in passing that would refer to ADA or FMLA. If not, and you don't know anything, I think you are safe. It is up to her to identify herself for these needs and you need to take every effort to accommodate, but that doesn't mean let her get away with not working.)
E Wart

franfields · October 2003

E Wart, I totally agree with you. Management would not let me call her and tell her not to bother coming in when she left the message saying she was getting on the treadmill. They did say if she didn't show up I could send a certified letter. Unfortunately, at 2:15 she showed up.

She will be working with a female partner, in a room, with no client contact, completing a project. Her work will be closely monitored. Of course, it is unlikely she will show up past today. At that point, I am authorized to send the certified letter.

Thanks for everyone's support. This has not been easy!!

System · October 2003

I send a letter of "intent to term" if an employee does not show up for work. It's a courtesy if the employer calls the employee to see why they are not at work. Some employees have such a good work ethics that if they didn't show up I would certainly know that something extraordinary happened - I would call them. If I were able to reach them and they were OK and able to call me, I would articulate an "intent to term."

Job Abandonment - Need help before terminating today!!

Comments