HR Generalist - Terminated!
SJ
2 Posts
I was terminated on Tuesday, 9-30-03. I'd worked for my employer, a company with 50,000+ employees, since Feb. 2002. In April 2003 I received a competitive promotion; the person who hired me is someone I'd worked with frequently in my previous role, and it was she who encouraged me to apply for a position she had open. At the time, I was a grade-E level, non-exempt employee making $28,000/year. She felt reasonably sure that she could hire me on at $40,000/year - significantly more than I was making, of course, but significantly less (i.e., approximately $30,000 less) than the person who had vacated the position. When the offer was finally made, she was only able to offer me $33,500/year - for a Grade-12, exempt position. Knowing that the position offered greater opportunities, the potential for increased pay, and was much more in line with my capabilities and education, I accepted - upon the condition that my offer letter stated that after six months in the position I'd be considered for an increae in pay based on my six-month performance review. That condition was approved by someone higher than the person who hired, and I accepted.
In my five months in the position, there had been no complaints about my performance, by my (now former) manager or anyone else I served in my role as a Human Resources Generalist. On September 16, 2003, my manager called me into a meeting when I arrived at work. She said she didn't like my attitude in a brief phone conversation we'd had the previous day; in the course of this lengthy conversation, the issue of my pay came up. She informed me that she would not be recommending me for a raise. I was astounded - I was making far less than the industry standard for our metro area, and she'd told me previously, on more than one occasion, that she was keeping a file of my accomplishments to support a pay increase after six months.
To make a long story short, I was terminated because I would not agree to "get over it" that I wasn't paid more. She told me during our Sept. 16th meeting that I 'had a chip on my shoulder' about the pay issue, and that I'd better get rid of it. In our conversation today, where I had no idea I was facing termination, we again discussed my pay. She told me I'd just have to accept the fact that I was not going to be given an increase. I told her that of course I was unhappy about it, but that no one (i.e., none of our clients) would ever know that I was dissatisfied - that I would continue to do a good job, and that my attitude at work wouldn't be affected. I also told her that I couldn't lie to her - I wasn't happy that I wouldn't see an increase. She ended the meeting quickly by telling me that she'd decided she'd then have to let me go, and that she would consider the termination reason to be "mutual agreement". I replied that I wasn't agreeing to quit my job, that leaving was NOT my choice. She then told me I had to leave, and she escorted me out of the building.
Fast forward a few days...
As stated above, I was told by my manager that she would consider the reason for the termination of my employment to be "mutual agreement". The day after my last day at work (i.e., Wednesday, 10-1-03), I spoke with a woman in HR (I’ll refer to her as JN) who is a few levels of above my now-former manager. JN said that she had received a voicemail from my former mgr stating that my termination was voluntary. I assured her it was not - and that I'd protested when my mgr called it that, as I was NOT quitting my job! - and the woman with whom I was speaking on Wed. afternoon said she'd 'make sure it got coded as involuntary, then'.
JN also said she'd have a conversation with my former mgr and call me back on Thursday or Friday. I hadn't heard from her by late morning on Friday, so I left her a voicemail. She called me back, and said that they were going to consider my termination to be involuntary, and the reason would be "unsatisfactory performance".
Though I had only been in my position five and one-half months, I did work in Human Resources, where I saw PLENTY of our HR customers (i.e., the employees for whom we provided HR services) receive first verbal warnings for performance issues; if the undesirable behavior continued, written warnings were issued - this was the standard procedure, and the only time I saw it vary was if it was clearly a violation of company policy, misconduct, or violation of the code of ethics. I pointed out to JN that I'd NEVER even received so much as a verbal warning that my performance was unsatisfactory. On the contrary, my mgr had once (approximately two months prior) patted a file of papers and said she was keeping it to 'get me more money in October' (in reference to my offer letter, in which it was stated that I'd be reviewed after six months on the job and considered for a raise). Her response was that the company doesn’t have to offer any kind of warning, and that their decision would stand.
I’ve now received no fewer than two different reasons for why my employment was terminated. Any thoughts or advice, as a result of this additional information?
In my five months in the position, there had been no complaints about my performance, by my (now former) manager or anyone else I served in my role as a Human Resources Generalist. On September 16, 2003, my manager called me into a meeting when I arrived at work. She said she didn't like my attitude in a brief phone conversation we'd had the previous day; in the course of this lengthy conversation, the issue of my pay came up. She informed me that she would not be recommending me for a raise. I was astounded - I was making far less than the industry standard for our metro area, and she'd told me previously, on more than one occasion, that she was keeping a file of my accomplishments to support a pay increase after six months.
To make a long story short, I was terminated because I would not agree to "get over it" that I wasn't paid more. She told me during our Sept. 16th meeting that I 'had a chip on my shoulder' about the pay issue, and that I'd better get rid of it. In our conversation today, where I had no idea I was facing termination, we again discussed my pay. She told me I'd just have to accept the fact that I was not going to be given an increase. I told her that of course I was unhappy about it, but that no one (i.e., none of our clients) would ever know that I was dissatisfied - that I would continue to do a good job, and that my attitude at work wouldn't be affected. I also told her that I couldn't lie to her - I wasn't happy that I wouldn't see an increase. She ended the meeting quickly by telling me that she'd decided she'd then have to let me go, and that she would consider the termination reason to be "mutual agreement". I replied that I wasn't agreeing to quit my job, that leaving was NOT my choice. She then told me I had to leave, and she escorted me out of the building.
Fast forward a few days...
As stated above, I was told by my manager that she would consider the reason for the termination of my employment to be "mutual agreement". The day after my last day at work (i.e., Wednesday, 10-1-03), I spoke with a woman in HR (I’ll refer to her as JN) who is a few levels of above my now-former manager. JN said that she had received a voicemail from my former mgr stating that my termination was voluntary. I assured her it was not - and that I'd protested when my mgr called it that, as I was NOT quitting my job! - and the woman with whom I was speaking on Wed. afternoon said she'd 'make sure it got coded as involuntary, then'.
JN also said she'd have a conversation with my former mgr and call me back on Thursday or Friday. I hadn't heard from her by late morning on Friday, so I left her a voicemail. She called me back, and said that they were going to consider my termination to be involuntary, and the reason would be "unsatisfactory performance".
Though I had only been in my position five and one-half months, I did work in Human Resources, where I saw PLENTY of our HR customers (i.e., the employees for whom we provided HR services) receive first verbal warnings for performance issues; if the undesirable behavior continued, written warnings were issued - this was the standard procedure, and the only time I saw it vary was if it was clearly a violation of company policy, misconduct, or violation of the code of ethics. I pointed out to JN that I'd NEVER even received so much as a verbal warning that my performance was unsatisfactory. On the contrary, my mgr had once (approximately two months prior) patted a file of papers and said she was keeping it to 'get me more money in October' (in reference to my offer letter, in which it was stated that I'd be reviewed after six months on the job and considered for a raise). Her response was that the company doesn’t have to offer any kind of warning, and that their decision would stand.
I’ve now received no fewer than two different reasons for why my employment was terminated. Any thoughts or advice, as a result of this additional information?
Comments
Time will tell if your efforts to stay in this field are dampened by future employment verification responses. HR people are notoriously unforgiving when they hear something like, "Well, she just didn't work out for us in HR", or "There were issues, but we can say no more". If those kinds of damaging things are hinted at, you may have difficulty staying in HR, if you want to do that.
Pick up your chin and go out and kick butt in your job hunt. Try very hard to chalk up this five month thing as something that went wrong that you had no control of. Although you could not control that situation (apparently) you surely do have control over what you decide to do from this point forward. Each day you spend more than 20% of the day fretting over this in semi-depression is one more day out of your life which is lost and wasted.
I hope you won't view this as a negative response. I'm trying to deliver to you a bit of reality and hope you will view it positively. x:-)
Guy
Good luck in your job search.
By the way, was the offer in writing?
LFernandes
Best of luck in your job search.
I agree that your efforts spent into "moving on" will be the best course of action. I, too, hate the EEOC course of action, but I still look back, even after seeing an attorney, which I also hate, for not taking one of my opportunities to "move on" to the EEOC. My attorney said I did not have a case on age, the EEOC may have seen it differently, but because I did not go I'll never know!
PORK
We wish for you a Blesed day and a better week! UI is not sufficient to live on but if you are awarded the benefit, use it to help you have a better day.
Not all company HR departments work the same way. What may work for one employer, may not work for another. Don't let this keep you from getting a new job in HR. Maybe try a smaller company that has less red tape.
And a word of advice... don't compare your compensation with others. Unless you have the same education and the same number of years of experience as the person before you or the person you are up against, it's not fair to compare yourself to them for equal comp.
If you want an inflated idea of what your experience is worth, check out salary.com. They are a bit high, but it will give you a fair idea of what you should be makeing based on your position, education and expeirence level.
Good Luck and I hope you find something that fits you well, soon!
Unless you suspect an illegal reason for your termination, there's nothing to do but chalk it up to experience and move on.
Good luck.
I hate to say it, but you committed a cardinal sin in the world of HR: You compared your wages to another's wages & demanded more money. When I face this situation with employees, I basically say to them, get over it, work harder or leave. My guess is that the former employee (the position you filled) did not tell you their salary, that maybe you used confidential information for personal gain. In any case, learn from this situation, collect UI, and start again in HR. There's a lot of issues you mentioned in your post - do yourself a favor - get right with it before you begin your job search - you don't want to come across as overly emotional in an interview. Determine your pat response phrase to the question regarding why they let you go and move on. Good luck to you!
As several people have said refocus and find a place that treats you better. There a tough lesson here file it away for future reference.
Good Luck
First, never take a job based on what you are promised for the future (whether it be money or opportunity or office location.) You should take it based on what it is now and whether you feel you are capable of doing it, want to do it, can learn from it, and can be of service to your employer.
Secondly, as several have mentioned before, I have no idea how you learned of someone elses salary, but you should never use this (or at least mention to anyone else.) What another person was paid has nothing to do with you. Their skills may have been different, they may have performed different duties, etc. Your pay should be based on the job and your worth, not someone elses.
Last, it sounds as if this company did what I really hate with employers... they have a hidden agenda that they don't share with employees and make the employee feel at fault. It could have been that they wanted to eliminate the job, it could have been that the Supv. was doing a ineffective job and she wanted to blame someone , it could have been that someone wore a red blouse instead of a white one one day. Anyway, they didn't give the honest reason and answers to those involved. (Or maybe they did and you were so upset, and rightly so, that you were unable to hear them.)
My best advise, as many have said, is decide what you like to do, want to do, and are good at. Then go for it with gusto and enjoy what you do. Good luck and try to learn from the past and move on. (I have lived with this type of atmosphere and know it is difficult to do. But my Mother always says that things turn out for the best in the long run. Hard to belive but normally is true.)
E Wart
There's something I'd like to make clear, as it understandably has a few of you thinking badly of me insofar as the compensation issue is concerned: I did NOT look up what my predecessor made. My manager, the one who terminated me, often brought up two things. One, that she made 'almost twice as much as I did'; and two, that she could understand my feeling slighted, as the person I replaced worked out a deal where she essentially was able to quit her job AND receive two years of severance pay. (She was a part-time, exempt employee, who'd been with the company for 21 years. They needed her to go full-time, and she refused, citing medical reasons. Management wanted to have her examined by a doctor of their choosing, to determine if she actually couldn't work full-time. Apparently she had a friend in someone who had some decision-making power, and this person said they 'couldn't do that to one of their own'. She was subsequently severed, with two years pay. This information is courtesy of my former mgr, the one who terminated me; she was none to happy that the severed ee was now able to 'sit on her butt up at her cabin and collect severance, while [my boss] was working her butt off...' Yes, those are her words, verbatim.
My former mgr also told me, when she made me the offer for the job, that she was sorry that she couldn't offer me $40k/year as she'd hoped; she cited the reason as being that I was an internal hire, and that they just wouldn't do that big of a precentage of a pay increase, regardless of the fact that they'd have paid someone "off the street" at LEAST $40-45K/year. So perhaps money was too big a deal to me, but who among us wouldn't feel slighted? Good for you if you wouldn't! Love of your job is one thing - and I'm all for it - but being fairly compensated is, in my opinion, also important.
I have an interview and some assessment testing at a temp agency tomorrow. I'm also considering returning to school (I currently have a B.A. in psychology). There's no telling what awaits me, work-wise, but I'm sure I'll be OK. As my former mgr noted and remarked about everal times, I'm intelligent, I work hard, I get things done (she was sometimes amazed at how I could deal with people who were mean, rude and disrespectful to her!), and I always bounce back.
Thanks again for your words - all of them - and I shall keep you posted if you're interested!
If she hadn't told you all these things and simply offered the job at whatever salary you were given, you would never have known the difference if the big raise down the road was denied, or you would have been even more thrilled to get the big raise if it ever came since it would have been unexpected.
Now you know how NOT to handle this with an employee, and your former supervisor hasn't learned that lesson yet. You came out on top, with experience anyway.
Good luck!
Since this is only your second post, I have no idea how long you have been reading the Forum. But, I also, am outspoken (not a word Beaglepuss), have strong opinions (you too, Toot), and come across at times with my NJ Girl attitude(don't you dare Don). My advise to you is learn and grow. HR is one place where neutrality is imperative and your feelings are just that, YOUR feelings. Hang em up on the rear view mirror when you go to work and leave em there until you go home. Oh.......and put that smile back in place.