Integrity - or lack thereof

LFernandes · July 2003

Hi everyone,

I'm really ticked and need to vent so here goes.... xx(

My boss is taking tomorrow for as a vacation day to go fishing but he doesn't want me to count it period - not as vacation or personal time. He wants it to show up as a day worked on his attendance. It's not like we don't get vacation or personal time and it's really got me steamed. If I talk to his boss about it, I'll end up between a rock and a hard place so I'm forced to keep my mouth shut. This isn't the first time either.

It just doesn't seem right and isn't. In my humble opinion, it's unethical and shows a lack of integrity. I was always taught that HR is supposed to lead by example. Good example - yeah right. It makes me wonder why I should even bother to keep records...

Sorry for venting but has anyone else come up against something like this and what was your outcome.

Just call me ticked-off in NY.

mwild31 · July 2003

I'm so sorry that you're in this pickle. I know this won't help your present situation, but this is just another reason why I think HR should report to the President/CEO/GM of a company - to avoid this and other situations.

Again, sorry to hear about it - hang in there x;-)

LFernandes · July 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-30-03 AT 02:26PM (CST)[/font][p]He's also best friends with the CEO...............who gave him the position

mwild31 · July 2003

Yikes! If it really bothers you, then take it to the CEO and explain your concerns in a professional manner and then it's up to the CEO to decide. If there's any retaliation from your supervisor, then honestly, you may want to find somewhere else to work where integrity is held to a higher level. Tough situation - I feel for you x:-)

scottorr · July 2003

I used to work in a very similar situation. My last boss used to show up between 10:30 and 11:00, 4 out of 5 days and then take a two hour lunch starting around 12:00 and leave by 3:30. Every week her time card read 8:00 to 4:00. She hired the CEO and from what I observed and heard he was the same way. She would also tell us she was heading to a meeting at our other facility and three hours later she would return with her hair and nails done. We used to say, "that must have been one heck of a meeting". After three years of doing her job I decided to leave and now I work for someone I respect.

Don D · July 2003

On the other hand, his friend, the boss, may have told him, "John Boy, you've been burning it at both ends and have worked 4 of the past five Saturdays. Take a day and go fishing." Why not tell him how you feel and ask him for an explanation. You may find that you misunderstood him and it's not an ethics deal at all. I spent 8 running days 12 hours a day in NLRB court a year ago. When I got through with it, exhausted, I told my boss and assistant I was going to the woods for a day, and don't count it as vacation. That wasn't a lack of ethics - I had it coming.

LFernandes · July 2003

But if it was a comp day, wouldn't you mark it down as such?

mwild31 · July 2003

simple answer, yes.

LFernandes · July 2003

I guess what goes around comes around and everything will end up in the wash. Thanks for letting me vent and for lending a sympathic ear.

L

Don D · July 2003

Quite literally, comp-time arrangements for exempt employees in the private sector is discouraged if not illegal under DOL definition. Perhaps the boss is aware of that. Hey, I'm just taking a devil's advocate position. If I didn't have all the facts, I would ask the guy what's up with this? It may not be a 'burn the boss' or 'bash a man' thing. I don't suggest we're going there with this. I just think it might be best to ask your supervisor to explain so that you will understand moving forward. You have more knowledge than we do though and you may already know. If he's shafting the system, there's not much you can do, probably, other than vent. Make a clear record of it though for your use later.

jenhall · July 2003

I'm in a company with 120 ee's, 8 of which are women. During deer season, it is very hard to find a male around here. I am a one person HR department and almost never do any of these guys turn in their missed time on their attendance sheets. I can't go to my boss (the VP and CFO) because of his participation. Nor can I go to his boss (the owner of the company)because of his participation. I don't like it, but some corporate traditions can't be changed. I don't think it's a particularly honest way of doing things, especially when we have vacation and personal time available. I feel your pain. Just take a deep breath and vent to the forum as often as possible.

sonny · July 2003

Don't know if there is time sheet involved, but if there is, I would have him fill it out and not be party to falsifying a document.

LindaS · July 2003

I agree with the statement "what goes around comes around". My former boss lacked a significant amount of integrity and after about 3 years, upper management FINALLY began to realize what was going on. Although they didn't terminate, he got the message and found another position. The only problem wa upper management felt that MY lack of bringing it to their attention (he had the rest of us believing they thought he walked on water) indicated that I didn't have the skills necessary to take over the department after he left. Lucky for me I found a great new position where I am treated with respect.

Hang in there - it he is doing something wrong, eventually he will get caught in his own mess.

One last thought - make sure YOU keep documentation of the issues just in case.

LFernandes · July 2003

Thanks everyone for your support. I have kept the e-mail telling me not to charge the day and his attendance controller (that he submitted) but have marked the day as "out". Let him explain it should it ever come to light.

Thanks again!

L

PS - I am taking a much deserved vacation next week starting tomorrow :DD
(with the appropriate time recorded of course!)

sandra_d · July 2003

One additional thought to think about - perhaps you can approach the CEO in a non-threatening way and say something like, "When people take the day off without using their PTO/vacation/sick/personal time, it really disrupts the workplace -- people who know about it get upset and spend time and energy being upset rather than doing their job. They wonder why it is they always have to use their PTO/vacation/sick/personal time whenever they are gone. As I've put some thought into this, I believe we have potential liability here as one group of employees get to have a priveledge that others do not. I propose that out of fairness to everyone, and so that nobody is intentionally or unintentionally discriminated against, we need to enforce our time off policies as they are written. If we as a company don't follow our own policies, we'll never convince a judge/jury/EEOC/DOL (whomever)that our employees know what is expected of them and that we enforce our policies fairly and without prejudice."

Regarding an earlier post where mostly females are left in the office when the men are gone deer hunting, without claiming time off, the above discussion is the first thing I would do to approach the issue with the CEO. I'm assuming women don't get a "free" day off with pay to shop, get their hair done, or whatever their personal hobby may be. I would do everything in my power to bring equality to that worksite, and if unsuccessful, I'd document my attempts because it may lead to trouble down the road if just "the right" woman is denied a "free" day off.

Crout · July 2003

I don't know. My boss comes in between 10-10:30 every day, and leaves when she wants. I really don't have a problem with it because I see how much work she puts in at nights and on weekends.

Pixie · July 2003

LFernandes, let me ask you this: Does your integrity lacking boss record all of the hours above 8 that he works? If he doesn't, do you react as strongly to that as you have to his taking time off without recording it? Heck, throughout the year I put in many, many, MANY long days, and in turn, I take days off with out recoring them as anything. Now, on the other hand if your boss is a NON exempt employee, that's a totally different story. In my humble opinion, there are more important things to worry about and, not recording a day off surely is not one of them. If you would like a few examples of an integrity lacking VP of HR ... I could tell you some real horror stories.

Cotterwood · August 2003

Pixie,

I don't want you to misunderstand what I'm saying, as I am also exempt and work long hours. BUT,,,,,, exempt employees are not allowed comp time by nature. Yes, we all occassionally take some time off to go to the doctor, or take care of personal business, which is a few hours of the day - generally not a whole day. Usually, exempt employees get some personal admin. days to use. However, if this Company doesn't offer that kind of a benefit, then that 'day of play' should be between his own boss, and NOT sneaking around asking our subordinates to lie. It appears - on the surface - that what this guy wants to do is 'steal' some time from Company, and make his subordinate an accomplice - not good. A lot of businesses still require an exempt/professional person to complete a timecard. If this is the case, then he needs to complete his own timecard and get it signed by his boss. If not, then this guy needs to get an ok from his boss.

System · July 2003

For years the men in this office left on Fridays by noon to go golfing - the men who didn't golf just left. There was an unspoken, unwritten rule that we "girls" couldn't leave. We had to answer phones, even though no one was here to give calls to! FINALLY, a few months back, word came down from Mt. Olympus that all offices would close at noon on Fridays, and everyone could leave providing their work was completed and nothing important was pending. It caused a huge morale problem here, watching the guys stampede out on Fridays and having to stay until 5 or 5:30, so I'm glad that changed. Like the others said, document all of this and wait and watch for this kind of thing to catch up to your boss. It always does. In the meantime, vent away!

LFernandes · July 2003

My boss comes in between 10:30 and 11:00 and usually takes a lunch hour or 2 and normally leaves at 6:00 except on the days that he has something to do - then he leaves early.

ray a · July 2003

I read once when you start to question the ethics of your bosses and start to document goings on to protect yourself or to use as evidence in the future, then it is time to look for a new job.

Don D · August 2003

This post doesn't respond to the initial question at all; but, is this really a sex-equity issue, or just a taking-advantage-bass issue? Where I'm from, we have as many women as men who deer hunt and also have tons of female golfers. When women knock off early, I don't assume it's to go shopping. They might be going coon hunting or off to shoot pool.

scottorr · August 2003

I do not think this is a sex-equity issue at all. My old boss was a female and she was not there more than she was. I don't know what she was doing, could have been coon hunting but I'm not sure. In both cases, this sounds more like a boss taking advantage of the system.

jenhall · August 2003

In my case it is definately the boss taking advantage, it has nothing to do with gender. Upper management just happens to be male and deer hunting is what they live for at this organization. Male or female, when you take advantage of the attendance policy, it severely lowers morale and productivity (at least it does here).

LFernandes · August 2003

I don't think it is a male female thing just employees working the system. Unfortunately I'm the attendance police and in charge of tracking all the time used, accruing vacation and personal time and sending out unexcused absence reports to managers, completing those God awful census reports, etc. Yes if you are working those long hours and can get a chance for some comp time, by all means use it. Just mark it down as such for us recordkeepers. Not marking it down and indicating that you were "in the office" isn't right. Call it what it is, comp time, vacation time, mental health day whatever. Just mark it down....period.

By the way - his boat broke down......

L

Cotterwood · August 2003

That's the ol' "do what I say, not what I do" theory.
Does your boss have to fill in a timecard? If so, let him do it, after all the person signing the timecard is stipulating that the hours/leave time is recorded /charged correctly and honestly.

You CAN tell your boss that you don't want to be forced to lie,or ("don't feel comfortable lying to the Company") and he'll have to be responsible for his own absences. If you get started in this, when - and I say WHEN, NOT IF, he gets caught 'stealing' - and that's what it is - you can be looked upon as an accomplice. DON'T GET STARTED WITH THIS - LET HIM RISK HIS OWN CARERR! Make a record of it in your personal Day Runner. If he starts to retaliate - then take this matter up with his boss or whoever is the next step up.

Integrity - or lack thereof

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