Vulgar Conversation -

T · June 2003

I have a department of about 8 women. These women are customer service women who answer phones. Their area is a walk thru area that other employees use to get to their offices. A few of these women are having very distasteful conversations about the men in their lives. I received a complaint from one of the women in the area and I'm hoping that a member has not heard any of this talk in the background; my question is, should I consult with just the 2 women who were accused of doing the talking or should I address each individual separately on our policy of harassment?

LFernandes · June 2003

I would have a sit down with the whole group to remind them of your sexual harassment policy. Include their supervisor or manager in the meeting. But, if you received a complaint about a specific person, I would also have a one-on-one discussion with that person (depending on the complaint) and have them read your sexual harassment policy and sign an acknowledgement that they received it. Explain in your meetings that should they continue to have inappropriate discussions at work, they could be subject to further disciplinary action up to an including discharge.

If it was a more formal type of complaint, you should conduct an investigation and take appropriate action as necessary.

Just my thoughts and opinion. Good luck.

LFernandes

aingram · June 2003

I would have to agree. While you might feel its necessary to confront the two main employees causing the problem, it might be wise to have a discussion on your policies with the whole group. If you don't it may cause animosity. While you are at it, have everyone in that area sign that they have read and understand the policy. That way, if this happens again, you can move on to discipline because you will already have the documentation.

Just my thoughts!

Amanda

T · June 2003

Thanks for your input. That is how I wanted to handle the situation, glad you both agreed.

Thanks again.

MrCreosote · June 2003

I think it's better to talk only to those who are acting inappropriately. It's a waste of time, and may be considered insulting, to include employees in the lecture who already know what's appropriate and already act accordingly.

Include everyone only if everyone is doing it.

T · June 2003

True. I really didn't think about that. The problem is all the women sit in the same area and when I call only those two out the rumors are sure to start flying. ??

LFernandes · June 2003

Why not just send out a reminder to ALL employees and have EVERYONE sign the acknowledgement?

My only concern is that you received a complaint about this group. I think I would still sit down and have a short discussion reminding them about the policy. Tell them that you received a complaint and felt that it needed to be addressed. I would rather do that then end up in court trying to defend myself because I didn't want to insult anyone.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

LFernandes

MrCreosote · June 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-23-03 AT 08:51AM (CST)[/font][p]According to the original post, two individuals were identified as causing the problem. Two. That's why you don't send out a reminder to all employees and have everyone sign an acknowledgment. Everyone except these two seems to get it already.
Those two should definitely be spoken to, and have no right to feel insulted if they did what they are accused of. Document it. It doesn't make sense, though, to remind everyone else. In my opinion, the company-wide reminder would be an indirect and ineffective waste of time.

mmscott · June 2003

I see nothing wrong with a reminder to everyone in the group. First you get to adress the 2 in question and the person who compains knows for certain that the issues was not taken lightly and possibly anyone else who might have felt this way and didn't speak up. Reinforcing rules should not cause a problem. I could see if you are speaking of the whole company. 8 is easy. Just have them sign it and if there is problem, then surely they an come in to complain if they wish. I doubt that will happen though.

SMace · June 2003

One reason that you would discuss the situation with the entire group is to remind them of the reporting procedures for a complaint and that an honestly believed complaint will not be retaliated against. These two are part of the group and the whole group needs to be aware of what their rights and responsibilities are in regards to harassment. Especially since there has been a substantiated complaint. I think to not address the group is short sighted.

Don D · June 2003

"T": You should handle this exactly as you would if the group of employees with the foul mouths in the building's open area were MEN. You'd be right on top of that, right? Do the same in this case. Women, although they may differ with me on this, have absolutely no free pass to hoot and holler and engage in sexual talk or bandy about suggestive comments any more than men do. It's an equal opportunity world and the opportunity to engage in inappropriate behavior is equal too; So should the response be.

Leslie · June 2003

I agree with Don. I had the same situation - with two of my HR specialists. And you'd think they'd know better. An applicant complained of a conversation she overheard them having. I brought THE TWO OF THEM IN, told them this stuff had to stop, and documented the meeting. They were appropriately embarrassed and contrite.

T · June 2003

Thanks for everyone's reply. I will handle the situation with the small group and I'm sure that the individuals will know who they are. I want to handle it as a group because I don't want the 2 ee's to know it was one of their own who complained. I want them to think it was a passer by.

Don D - I always love to read your replies/input.

MarieA · June 2003

I believe you are taking a shotgun approach when you should be using a rifle. If you know the offending parties, address them directly.

SMace · June 2003

One reason that you would discuss the situation with the entire group is to remind them of the reporting procedures for a complaint and that an honestly believed complaint will not be retaliated against. These two are part of the group and the whole group needs to be aware of what their rights and responsibilities are in regards to harassment. Especially since there has been a substantiated complaint. I think to not address the group is short sighted.

MrCreosote · June 2003

Reporting procedures should be available to everyone. The company should not retaliate against those who complain. Employees should know their rights and responsibilities regarding harasssment. I agree and I don't think anyone will disagree with that.
The issue, though, is dealing with two employees who had vulgar conversations in the workplace. Apparently, someone did report it, so that is not the problem. There was no indication of retaliation, and a clear desire to avoid even the appearance of retaliation, so that is not the problem, either. To raise those points just clouds the issue.
The issue is two employees with a discipline problem and how to handle that. In my opinion it should be handled directly with the two employees, for reasons stated previously. If you are serious about preventing harassment, you need to take a serious and direct approach, which is individual counseling or discipline and not a group reminder. If I were the guilty party and it were handled in a group or company-wide manner, I would feel that I had gotten off easy and that what I had done must not have been so bad, after all, since there were no repurcussions. "Hmm, they've sent out reminders now about getting to work on time, wearing blue jeans and halter tops, hostile work environments, the company trip to the zoo next weekend..."
Your advice makes me think of someone who is standing in front of a burning building and talking about preventing the next fire instead of calling 911 to take care of the fire right in front of you.

LFernandes · June 2003

I repeat my first post:

I would have a sit down with the whole group to remind them of your sexual harassment policy. Include their supervisor or manager in the meeting. But, if you received a complaint about a specific person, I would also have a one-on-one discussion with that person (depending on the complaint) and have them read your sexual harassment policy and sign an acknowledgement that they received it. Explain in your meetings that should they continue to have inappropriate discussions at work, they could be subject to further disciplinary action up to an including discharge.

System · June 2003

I had a same-sex-harrassment complaint within a department of 20.
I spoke with each of the members of the department privately, gave them a copy of our EEOC policy. I highlighted the paragraph that states 'no harrassment....and no retaliation....." I then told them there had been a complaint within the department (without telling them what the complaint was about) and asked if they had been approached by another employee or had overheard remarks by other employees that were offensive to them. All but the accused employee had overhead the offensive remarks and several other employees admitted privately they had also been approached by a person (they all named the same person) and were too embarrassed to report it. I would not have known of the other situations if I had not spoken privately with each of them. After the conversations, I met with the accused employee and she was appropriately disciplined. Because of the intimacy of the subject to some employees, I tend not to agree with a group talk.

SMace · June 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-25-03 AT 11:35AM (CST)[/font][p]Mr Creosote
My reply had to do with why it would be good to include a group discussion when dealing with this issue. I did not address what to do with the specific offenders. Something should be done and that was explained well by you and others.

Paraphrase,"They know how to complain, someone apparently did."
Just because one person knows to complain doesn't mean that others do. What if they are new and have not gone through training? What if they don't remember?

Your advice reminds me of someone who looks at things through a toilet paper roll.

MrCreosote · June 2003

SMace, You wrote, "Your advice reminds me of someone who looks at things through a toilet paper roll." What does that mean?

Don D · June 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-25-03 AT 03:02PM (CST)[/font][p]Guys! Guys! I think you both had valid points. I think the Toilet paper remark implied 'tunnel vision' which was probably in response to the remark about standing in front of a burning building. I can see having group training as well as dealing head on with the known offenders in this situation. More often than not, two things are timely when a company has sexual harassment going on; discipline and training.

SMace · June 2003

As DOn stated, I was implying tunnel vision.

ray a · June 2003

Interesting that a topic as volatile as vulgar language and harassment has created dissention among our normally very civil ranks. Shows how divisive the topic can be. If we has HR pro's have a hard time defining how to handle it, imagine how difficult it is for the rank and file to understand.

T · June 2003

Wow! This sure has become a heated discussion. I handled the situation as a group and also individually with the whole group. As a matter of fact the 2 ee's who were "guilty" came to talk to me individually to apologize for making an uncomfortable environment for the other workers. They each assured me that it would not happen again. - Story book ending???? We'll see.

Thanks again for all the feed back.

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