EEs working the system

Hi all,

Do you have any EE's working the system? If so, how do you handle them? I have an EE who is a real PIA. He signed up for the gym (it's a benefit that we provide to EE's where the company pays half) and after six months told the gym that he was with our company and refused to pay his back dues to them. So the gym just billed the company for his membership and now he is refusing to pay the company back (we've cancelled his membership, the gym has permanetly revoked his membership).

Three months ago he received safety shoes (EE are entitled to shoes once a year). Now he wants another pair of shoes and we are saying no because it goes against policy. He has now become the backyard lawyer delivering disserations via e-mail as to why he should be entitled to shoes.

Before that, he wasn't happy with something else and something else before that and something else before that. Every time I get an e-mail or he walks into my office, my shields go up and all I can think of is "red alert". He wears you down with constant badgering until you want to run down the hall screaming. I'm not the only one, my boss feels the same way!

Wow, I feel better, maybe I just needed to vent! Thank God it's Friday.


LFernandes

Comments

  • 23 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • I am not so sure that the ee is working the system or that the company is allowing him to work the system. He owes the company money. What is the company policy on getting the money back. Depending on what company policy is, he may be abusing the e-mail system. He has a past history of being unhappy about something. He wears you down (is this creating a hostile environment). The heck with venting. Why hasn't he been disciplined?
  • As per policy, we can only deduct money from an employee's check if they sign a pay deduction authorization form. I sent him the form and he refused to sign it. I guess I will need to take that up with Sr. Management to see how they want to handle it.

    The EE isn't yelling when he is badgering me (if he was, he would have been disciplined) instead, he just talks and talks saying the same thing over and over and over again and just won't go away. (It got so bad at one point, I told him that he needed to make an appointment).

    On the surface, he appears to be a nice guy so he's got alot of people fooled and they feel sorry for him which is why they always give in. But not me, I had him pegged the second time I spoke to him and I don't trust him one bit.
  • Have you thought of telling him to leave your office. If he refuses, it's insubordination. If he leaves,you've accomplished your goal.
  • I haven't thought of that. I have walked out and told him that I was going to a meeting. I'll have to try that one.
  • I am glad he went to work for you! Couple of points. Safety shoes are one of only two types of PPE the employer does not have to provide, per OSHA as it is such a personal item and can be used away from the workplace. The other is safety glasses. I would point that out to him the next time, saying the company is kind enough to pay for one pair a year, if you for some reason need more than that it is your responsibility. He will probably then flap his gums about coming in without safety shoes. I would inform him that progressive discipline would be applied, and he would be sent home to get his safety shoes on and that it would be an attendance issue.
    While I may get blasted on this next part here goes. This sounds like the type of individual who needs to be gone. I can only assume he is a negative influence in the workplace.
    The question though, is he also so dumb that he frequently breaks company rules? If so hold him to them and begin the progressive discipline process. You can write him up for violating company policy, instead of specific rules and from there you would be able with a little luck speed the process up. If you are an at will state and he becomes argumentitive or combative, term him for insubordination. My guess is the other employees will be thrilled. However if he is one that always follows the rules, and you have no way of helping him be happier, you must learn to minimize his attempts to have you as his audience. Once he gets to the basics of a point, just tell him you will give it some thought, but you have a project you are working on or a phone call you have to make and excuse yourself, or him.
    My $0.02 worth.
    DJ The Balloonman
  • He has been a negative influence and I know for a fact that some employees hate to deal with him (not just his co-workers). Because he always seems to get his way, I think he is perceived as being a "favorite". This really gets my goat because I know that it isn't the truth. But then agan, the truth is what you perceive it to be.

    Do you have the regs on the safety shoes. I would like to look up the standard. I think I'm going to need amo on this one.

    Thanks.
  • Here is the phrase that pays:

    The current standard does not state that the employer must purchase and distribute protective footwear "...with no cost to the employee". This question has been raised several times since the inception of OSHA, and it has normally been considered a labor/management relations matter, resolved through formal or informal negotiations between the affected parties.

    The link to this letter of interpretation:
    [url]http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=21278&p_text_version=FALSE[/url]

    You can go to the OSHA site if you have problems with the link, the letter is dated 9/20/93.

    Let me know if this does not work for you. Remember with the exception of eyeglasses and shoes the employer does have the repsonsibility of paying for PPE.

    My $0.02 worth.
    DJ The Balloonman
  • This guy is your chief irritant at the moment, isn't he? Here's what I would do.
    1) Tell him to read the company policy on safety shoes. Tell him it is not debatable. End of subject.

    2) Tell him, "John, let me be perfectly frank with you, hold on, let me finish, I'd like you to sit there quietly while I make my point. John, I must tell you that you have become extremely high maintenance from an HR time management point of view. I do not have sufficient time to devote to all of your concerns in the proportion that you would like for me to devote my time. That will not change. That is a fact. I must manage my own time and that will include managing the time I have available to address your concerns. Certain things are not negotiable, not debatable and not open to democratic processes, for example our safety shoe purchase policy and (whatever). I will tell you when you raise one of those and that will be the end of the discussion.

    3) Tell him the company is going to deduct the amount he owes the company in three equal installments and do it, regardless of his refusal to sign a form.

    4) Tell him that if he persists in sending lengthy diatribe emails voicing his philosophy and opinion, that you will recommend to management that the IS staff be instructed to cut off his computer privileges. Tell him you will not read or respond to his emails from this point forward.

    5) Tell him that prior to visiting your office in the future, he must have had the conversation already with his immediate supervisor and must ask for an audience with you and include the supervisor and you will set a time and time limit for the meeting if you feel a meeting is appropriate.

    We must manage our time, our resources and our department. We cannot allow high maintenance people to monopolize our time or waste our time or impose demands on our time. We must also admit that we reach frustration levels and for mental health, must also manage that. Doing the above things would help me manage my mental health while sending this time abuser clear messages that he is not in control. He loves an audience and feels you will be there for him when he needs one. Disappoint him.
  • This sounds great. Tell him your parameters.

    I can't help but wonder how he gets his work done if he is talking to you and everyone else, plus the e-mails. Is this something you can look in to?

    I agree that he does not seem happy here. Why does he stay?!!
  • When employees sign up for the gym benefit, doesn't the gym have to take some responsibiity to get their money? Why did they wait six months to ask for payment? Why don't you pay the company portion, 50%, and have the gym bill him for his portion? Then it is no longer your problem. Did he sign anything to get this benefit? If he did, then he knows that he is responsible to make the payments. If you can't get an autorization, take him to small claims court. That should fry him! I agree with the suggestion that you ask him to leave your office when you hear his complaint for the first time. Take it down, read it back and tell him you are done discussing it. If he refuses to leave, tell him that a refusal is insubordination and that action will be taken. You need to nip this in the bud. As for the safety shoes, it is your policy to pay for one per year and after three months he wants new ones, he can pay for them. It is not your responsibility. He has probably gone through life making someone else responsible for his problems. You can be the one to say no. Get your boss involved and other supervisors/managers. Be a united front and stop this. It is a form of harrassment!!
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-20-03 AT 10:14AM (CST)[/font][p]Thanks for all your great advice. I always knew I could count on all of you! I will definately use your suggestions and have already sent the OSHA standard and link to my boss.

    I really think this guy is using the company for all it's worth. It's not right nor is it fair to the company and all the other employees.

    Thanks for your help!


    LFernandes
  • Don,
    Kick ass response! I am sitting here reading it thinking you hit the nail on the head. Also letting him know the whining and bitching is over.
    My $0.02 worth.
    DJ The Balloonman
  • I know I'm late getting in but am I missing something?

    Return the money, sign the damn form, or it's misappropriation of company funds and you're fired.

    You got your pair of shoes for the year. Period. One more word, and it's insubordination and you're fired.


  • I took your advice and haven't responded to any of his latest e-mails after informing him that he isn't entitled to another pair of boots and suggesting that he take his boots to the shoe repair shop around the corner.

    Have a great weekend everyone!
  • I think Don D's answer is excellent. Mine is a little shortened version (and probably not near as nice) for those policy discussions. It goes something like this, "Joe, I'm glad to explain any company policy to any employee. We've already discussed this policy. It is clear to me that you understand the policy, you just simply don't like it. It's a waste of my time and yours to debate the policy. I need to go back to work and do something productive and you do too."

    Margaret Morford
    theHRedge
    615-371-8200
    [email]mmorford@mleesmith.com[/email]
    [url]http://www.thehredge.net[/url]
  • At some point, it becomes clear that the employment relationship is not working out.

    If this guy is a pain, always complaining, but has not engaged in protected activity (and since I don't know the details of the issues, only you can answer that), considering terminating the employment relationship NOW. If you don't his complaints will move to protected activity!! He will not get better.

    Say "It's clear that you are not happy at this company. Good bye!"

    The sooner a trouble maker is gotten rid of the better!!

    Good Luck!!
  • >>Say "It's clear that you are not happy at this company. Good bye!"<<

    Believe it or not, I actually said that to him several times after his performance review because he was pissing and moaning that he didn't get enough of a raise bla bla bla. I told him that he needed to make a decision and if he wasn't happy here that he should go elsewhere... unfortunately... he stayed.

    LF
  • The problem is that you gave him the choice of staying or going. Next time, make it the company's choice, leaving him none.
  • I offer the following advice with regard to your challenging ee:
    be alert to rewards or reinforcements this person might receive for his bad behavior.

    People sometimes find odd things rewarding—for example, any attention (even negative attention) can and is often perceived as a reward. Make sure your reaction doesn't turn out to reward the behavior you want to stop.

    Stop giving this person his reward and tell him to get back to work or as stated above end the relationship (fire him)!

    Good luck with a frustrating issue.
  • Here's an update:

    I received another e-mail today so I forwarded them all over (even the nasty ones from the EE) along with my replies to my COO with an explanation of the policy and OSHA standard mentioned above (thank you!). He agrees that the employee is abusing the system and is backing me up stating that the EE is NOT entitled to another pair of shoes.

    Thanks everyone for your input. Hopefully this EE will be so mad that he'll end up quitting. One can only hope!

    Enjoy the weekend!

    LFernandes
  • Enjoy your weekend. But, on Monday, this over-ripe mushmellon will be on the same shelf in the refrigerator where you left it today, only riper. This is not about safety shoes. This, as was posted by pecohr, is about a maddening employee whose behavior will only vacillate, not change. He will continue to 'work you' and pester you and demand attention and time from you, all in his successful efforts to reward his behaviors. He manages to engage you. He engages you by email, he engages you standing in your doorway carrying on about his foolish issues, he engages you with notes and memos and a variety of other odd bahaviors. That is what he enjoys doing and the attention and feedback he gets from you are his rewards.
  • Did I mention that I haven't responded to any of his e-mails??? I take great satisfaction in ignoring them
    x}>

    LFernandes
  • As we all can say - "10% of the workers cause 90% of the problems. I have not read the other answers, but pay close attention to company rules & regulations. Keep records. If he violates, take immediate action.
    The biggest problem(s) I had were with FMLA interpretation, but you (or I) do not have 6 days to talk.
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