OK. I just had to say it. I just read the post where Don said, "Then I hugged her. I also brought her flowers the next morning. The card said, "God works miracles". Then, everyone congratulated him on what a good person he is. But, somehow, everyone complains that I tell people that I will pray for them. What's the difference?
I think the difference was that it happened out side of normal work hours and this person was more like a friend than a regular ee. I know I probably sound like a cold hearted new endland liberal, but I would not have written that statement.
What is different is that you said your #1 job on earth is to tell people about Jesus. You also talk about witnessing people. From those statements I take that you believe everyone that is non-christian is going to hell and it is your duty to convert them whether they like it or not. And you let everyone know it. I even interpret from your postings that you try to convert people at work. That is VERY different than what Don did. Tell me if I'm wrong.
Nothing like a good religious debate to liven things up. Religion and Politics the two bound to get people talking -- for better or worse :-)
That said. I've read all of the posts and I have to agree with DonD. Religion is an extremely sensitive topic and you never know who will be offended by what. I'd leave the comment out. If you put his comment in, you've set a precident. Down the line others may want religious or other comments put in and you'll be hard pressed to say No once you've done it for one. Far fetched, but it could become someone's platform.
Regarding this issue, I think it's ironic that while riding home on the train last night, I was reading my latest issue of Human Resource Executive and the cover story was "Respecting Religions" and it was one of the most insightful, thoughtful articles on religion in the workplace I've ever read. Not to mention the fact that it blows most of our views on the best way to handle it entirely out of the water! I wish I could post the entire article here for all of you to read. If you can get a copy, DO IT!!!!!
Just read the article referred to and agree with it. However, I wonder how many of those company's mentioned would send out a message such as was listed in the original post? Diversity is the USA today and we in HR are required to recognize that, however I do believe our stand as an HR professional is to remain neutral when dealing with company-wide issues lest we be reprimanded for discriminating against one particular group or another. The article also didn't mention anything about Bibles on desks being a policy, but rather went into company's supporting religious groups holding meetings and other ways to support religious diversity. Quite another issue. In other words one general religion is not openly supported by HR or management but rather the diversity of the group is celebrated in a non offending manner.
I haven't checked the forum in a couple of days and found this thread. I feel I have to respond and hope I don't offend anyone.
Julie, I live in the Bible Belt and have learned to be cautious about revealing the fact that I am Jewish (I don't practice the religion but it is my heritage) because of people not unlike yourself who don't quite understand what it is like for those of us in the minority to constantly be reminded that we are different from them and need to change. At my last workplace, I was introduced as their minority. They didn't mean any harm by it, even thought it was cute, but it was hurtful just the same. My husband (who was raised a Christian) had a boss who sent me a tape about Christian Jews attempting to convert me. No pressure there!
What you may not understand is that not complaining may not mean that we not offended. It may simply mean we choose not to complain, for a variety of reasons.
I believe that everyone has the right to their own beliefs and the workplace is no place for religion except in its most personal and private sense.
I really didn't mean to offend anyone and I didn't mean to stir things up this much. Contrary to what everyone seems to believe, I don't go around trying to convert people. I would never use my position as HR Manager to try to force someone to listen to me. All I began by saying was that I can't keep God out of the workplace totally because my beliefs are a part of who I am and I'm not ashamed of it. I agree that everyone has a right to their own beliefs, whether I agree with those beliefs or not. And, I would never discriminate against anyone because of their religious beliefs. But, I am a Christian and I hope that by the way I act, others know it.
Julie, I wasn't trying to "pound" on you, I was trying to pound my point. I hope my comments did not upset you or anyone else. Thanks for starting a great discussion within a discussion. I think we all learned a lot.
By the way what does it mean "to witness someone"?
Hi Stephen, I read your post and saw that no one answered your question, so I thought I would. To "witness" to someone is a Christian terminology, much like being "saved" or getting "the call." Many times Christians use this terminology, assuming everyone knows what it means. To witness simply means to share your beliefs with someone else. In biblical times, it refered to the 12 disciples of Christ who "witnessed his teachings and miracles and such" and then later the witnesses at the pentacost who were some of the the first believers under the new covenant of Christ. They became known as "witnesses" and later than term took for spreading your beliefs. Sorry for the biblical history lesson, I just usually try to explain the whole story if someone is curious.. Thanks for asking and not assuming.
Wow! I haven't been on employer's forum for a while, and have missed out on all the fun! Julie, you have taken quite a pounding and I wanted to tell you that I support you! I am also a born again believer and have a bible on my desk, along with a framed edition of the Lord's prayer.
I've been in HR management for over eleven years now and have never had any complaints. I work in a factory environment where we have just about every religion under the sun. My philosphy has always been to go above and beyond to service employees. I don't believe in pushing off my personal beliefs on anyone, but if they ask me questions about it, I'm not going to cower in fear. I may be the only bible a person ever sees, so to me, my example is much more important than my words.
I honestly don't care what religion a person is when they walk in my office, they will get the same first class treatment as any other employee. I respect all people, and it is not my job to judge others for not having my same beliefs, that is God's job.
Fascinating discussion..I think both sides have said it all. . to digress but did anyone else notice that 2 of our most debated topics were posted by first timers who never appeared again? Just thought that intersting/odd?
I, too, made that observation -- first the Confederate flag thing, now this. I tend to liken it to the poor guy who wanders into a gas station in a small town in the middle of south/north/west/east America and asks directions. There are a dozen people sitting around the cracker barrel and the Coke machine and they all start arguing on the best way to get there. However, no one notices that the guy has disappeared. x;-)
Great analogy. . but wonder if we will ever know what the decision was? Maybe end up being one of those mysteries. . like what has happened to Gillian..miss him.
Oooh, I hate to ask another question, but I'm glad this came up. Our corp office is small (around 15) - we've never had any religious issues come up, even though two people are very practicing Christians, with religious symbols prominently displayed in their offices. Recently, one of these individuals sent out an email to everyone in corporate (using company email) inviting everyone to his church. This was followed within a month with another invitation to attend Billy Graham's recent revival meeting (maybe it was called something else, don't know). Anyway, no one complained, but there were some private conversations about the wisdom of allowing company email to be used in this way. Currently, we have no policy in place regarding electronic communications of any kind. I don't want to make a problem where there is none . . . just wondering.
I think it's great that everyone is handling such a difficult subject so respectfully - love this forum, despite that I am most often a reader, not a poster.
I don't think that's an appropriate use of company computers. If you don't have a policy re use of company-owned electronic media, you may want to develop one. It just solves so many hassles right away. Everyone knows what they can and cannot do and what their limitations are with regard to the company's computers. You'll thank youself later.
Despite my resistance, I agree. Does anyone have a sample they could share, that addresses it? I checked out the sample email policy Margaret Morford has posted on this site, but it doesn't specifically address what is/not allowed, other than to say "not for personal use." This seems a bit broad, especially since I know that almost everyone uses it for some personal items, including the CEO. I would hate to put something in place that higher ups will ignore, thus rendering it ineffective right out of the gate . . .
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-22-03 AT 03:31PM (CST)[/font][p]This is from ours . . "may NOT be used for the following: commercial activities, religious causes, solicitations of any kind, political activity . . . " Hope that helps.
I agree with Parabeagle, this is not an appropriate us of the companies e-mail system. I do not have a copy of it but at my last job our policy specifically stated any electronic communication that contained any information that could be found offensive to any race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, parental status and any other protected group was strictly prohibited. Hope this helps.
I have an company electronic mail usuage policy if you would like to email me, I can send you a copy. It says pretty much the same thing. We refrain from allowing company computers to be used for not only religious topics, but political and solicitations as well. There IS a company bill board in the kitchen however that can be used, so I often wonder if that is not really the same thing, just in paper form..but the uppers want it. My email Nina (mcrowell@tbacu.org)
Sorry for chiming in kind of late on this topic, but with a hospitalized wife, I've been in and out of the office a lot.
First, Julie, you are not alone. I too am one of those "born again" Christians. And I applaud the stand you have taken. It took a lot of courage to say some of the things you have said. I do not force my beliefs on others, people know I don't use the foul language, I don't do other things that some do. I also respect people with other beliefs and try to show as much compassion as possible with everyone.
As far as using computers to spread religious or other information. If not controlled you could be opening yourself to allowing union propaganda to be distributed. I vote for controls.
Comments
That said. I've read all of the posts and I have to agree with DonD. Religion is an extremely sensitive topic and you never know who will be offended by what. I'd leave the comment out. If you put his comment in, you've set a precident. Down the line others may want religious or other comments put in and you'll be hard pressed to say No once you've done it for one. Far fetched, but it could become someone's platform.
Valentine
[linkURL|text]http://www.workindex.com/hrexecutive/cover.asp
Tammy
Julie, I live in the Bible Belt and have learned to be cautious about revealing the fact that I am Jewish (I don't practice the religion but it is my heritage) because of people not unlike yourself who don't quite understand what it is like for those of us in the minority to constantly be reminded that we are different from them and need to change. At my last workplace, I was introduced as their minority. They didn't mean any harm by it, even thought it was cute, but it was hurtful just the same. My husband (who was raised a Christian) had a boss who sent me a tape about Christian Jews attempting to convert me. No pressure there!
What you may not understand is that not complaining may not mean that we not offended. It may simply mean we choose not to complain, for a variety of reasons.
I believe that everyone has the right to their own beliefs and the workplace is no place for religion except in its most personal and private sense.
I'll hop off my soapbox now.
I wasn't trying to "pound" on you, I was trying to pound my point. I hope my comments did not upset you or anyone else. Thanks for starting a great discussion within a discussion. I think we all learned a lot.
By the way what does it mean "to witness someone"?
Stephen
I read your post and saw that no one answered your question, so I thought I would. To "witness" to someone is a Christian terminology, much like being "saved" or getting "the call." Many times Christians use this terminology, assuming everyone knows what it means. To witness simply means to share your beliefs with someone else. In biblical times, it refered to the 12 disciples of Christ who "witnessed his teachings and miracles and such" and then later the witnesses at the pentacost who were some of the the first believers under the new covenant of Christ. They became known as "witnesses" and later than term took for spreading your beliefs. Sorry for the biblical history lesson, I just usually try to explain the whole story if someone is curious..
Thanks for asking and not assuming.
I've been in HR management for over eleven years now and have never had any complaints. I work in a factory environment where we have just about every religion under the sun. My philosphy has always been to go above and beyond to service employees. I don't believe in pushing off my personal beliefs on anyone, but if they ask me questions about it, I'm not going to cower in fear. I may be the only bible a person ever sees, so to me, my example is much more important than my words.
I honestly don't care what religion a person is when they walk in my office, they will get the same first class treatment as any other employee. I respect all people, and it is not my job to judge others for not having my same beliefs, that is God's job.
I think it's great that everyone is handling such a difficult subject so respectfully - love this forum, despite that I am most often a reader, not a poster.
My email Nina (mcrowell@tbacu.org)
First, Julie, you are not alone. I too am one of those "born again" Christians. And I applaud the stand you have taken. It took a lot of courage to say some of the things you have said. I do not force my beliefs on others, people know I don't use the foul language, I don't do other things that some do. I also respect people with other beliefs and try to show as much compassion as possible with everyone.
As far as using computers to spread religious or other information. If not controlled you could be opening yourself to allowing union propaganda to be distributed. I vote for controls.