Do you discuss hiring decisions?

Paul in Cannon Beach · October 2002

Im in the middle of hiring a couple positions and the old issue of what you tell an applicant who wants to know why he was not hired has re-appeared.

On one hand, I understand an applicants desire to identify what areas they should be working on to make themselves more attractive.

On the other hand, most applicants resent hearing criticism and often disagree with what is said. Also, hiring decisions may be partly intuitive (don't tell me that you don't listen to your gut) and that is not something one would discuss.

So, whats your policy or stance? How many of you say nothing to applicants that you reject? How many will actually say "this is why we did not hire you"? What are the reasons for your policy?

Thanks!

[email]paulknoch@hotmail.com[/email]

HS · October 2002

We typically send a generic letter to ever applicant who didn't "make it". It basically states that ...it was quite apparent from the interview that you have significant experience, which will serve you well in your chosen field. After reviewing your background and our current needs, we do not feel there is an appropriate fit at this time...

Typically that takes care of the "inquiring" phone calls. When I do get them, I ususally say that either "we filled the position internally" (if we did of course) or that we went with the applicant who had the strongest qualifications based on the requirements of the position.

Hope this helps.

Pork · October 2002

I agree, get a generic letter and mail it to all interviewees. However, there are some that you may want to remain in contact. Over the last two years there was in my view, the strongest candidate available but not selected. Now this week, we have, infact, hired and relocated the candidate that I knew to be the best and most qualified. Had I given him the generic letter he might have landed somewhere else. I remained in contact over the e-mail with the individual. I kept him stringing along and he kept me up-dated on how his company was keeping him interested in them financially and opportunistic wise. Once his company made him a multi-unit manager then our managers became more interested. The other competiting candidate was hired and failed. Stringing a candidate along is my HR way of keeping the candidate interested without telling the candidate anything in particular about why he/she did not make it. We had a change in Production Manager level and now my selected candidate and the new production manager were a match; it worked and we are better off for it! Good Luck, Pork

Margaret Morford · October 2002

I'm, of course, going to take a radically different position. If the person could improve, I'd like to help them. But as Paul said, many usually wind up arguing about why it isn't the way I saw it in the interview. When the interviewee takes the trouble to call and asks, I usually say, "I'll be glad to tell you why you weren't ultimately choosen (give you some interview tips, give you some constructive critism - whatever the request is when the interviewee telephones), but it has been my experience that most people wind up telling why my perception/decision was wrong and it becomes frustrating for us both." Then I don't say anything else. If the interviewee really wants help, he/she will make the request again and I'll try to help him/her. This makes the conversation more productive. I usually will tell the interviewee that you need a stronger answer to this question or that your skills were not as strong as we needed in this area or that you gave an answer that really bothered one of the interviewers and lead them to feel this way about you or that you talked too much and need much shorter answers. All of this is helpful so that the interviewee doesn't continue to repeat the same mistakes. With that said, if what knocked them out of the running for the job could be twisted into a lawsuit or they appear to be the type looking for a reason to sue, I do exactly what the person above does and tell them we found a more qualified candidate and no more. These instances are rare and I'd like to help people find work if I can.

Margaret Morford
theHRedge
615-371-8200
[email]mmorford@mleesmith.com[/email]
[url]http://www.thehredge.net[/url]

Don D · October 2002

I've always resisted (refused) the urge to tell people why they were not hired for much the same reasons as you suggest in your post. If I can get ahead of the calls coming in, I send a generic (vague) letter thanking them for their interest, encouraging them to apply for future vacancies and advising them that the position has been filled. Depending on the 'wind-speed' of the request/demand for a reason, I will either (A) tell them that our practice does not allow for the open discussion/comparison of candidates with others, (B) We evaluated the entire candidate pool against our specific opening and made a business decision to go with what we considered the best fit, or (C) We don't get into that. I suggest that it's always unwise to say we 'selected somebody more qualified'. The first thing that does is force him to immediately listen to the conclusion that he is 'less than'. That's what's heard. It's a bad message, even when true. Secondly, if the candidate is the type who wants to challenge you, that's a good way to get it started. On a somewhat related note, since I have two kids in college (forces empathy) often I will respond to a graduate's resume with a personal letter thanking him for the resume, typically explaining our lack of matching positions, but also suggesting perhaps a different approach to resume format and content, and suggestions for job search. The letter also congratulates him on graduation and tells him I can relate to his situation since I have two of my own in the same one. So I not only want him to benefit from my suggestions but I want him to know I'm asking his permission to make these suggestions. I think it's been productive although I have only had four thank me.

Paul in Cannon Beach · October 2002

I have moved away from the term "better qualified applicant" to "an applicant who more closely matches the needs of the position". To me, that seems to say "you're great and this other person is great too and just happens to be great in the ways we are seeking".

It sounds to me like we are all in the same boat - there is a desire to help applicants improve but caution and human nature limit how much constructive criticism can or should be offered.

Don D, I think that is really great that you take the time to give graduates some advice and encouragement. When I am approached by an applicant and we have no openings, I will try to do what I can to help them. Its a nice thing to do, good PR for your company, and it embodies the spirit of HR.

Paul

Rockie · October 2002

To all the folks that we interview for particular positions, I simply send a note thanking them for their time and advising that we have selected an applicant who most closely meets the needs of the organization.

Otherwise, when you get involved in a conversation, you usually get someone who thinks they did "something wrong" and wants to know why they weren't selected or you get someone who is very argumentative and wants you to give them specifics of why they were not selected. I simply do not get involved in these type conversations.

mets · October 2002

I favor the position that explains to an applicant that another similarly qualified employee was hired. If there are any suggestions for the applicant to improve in any capacity I do not hesitate to offer them- I also advise the applicant, if interested, of any other employment activity I might be aware of in the community which they may have interest in. Otherwise, I do not get into a debate as to the differences in qualifications of all the candidates.

vmiller MO · October 2002

Why not simply say that "we have chosen another applicant." There is the doctrine that "No good deed goes unpunished."

Don D · October 2002

>Why not simply say that "we have chosen another applicant." There is
>the doctrine that "No good deed goes unpunished."

Mr. Miller: In the HR world, we are often (always) trying to be good guys insofar as possible and attempting to 'please people' while doing the job correctly. There is frequently the urge to provide genuine feedback with a smile. We don't cut that tap off when it comes to responding to applicant inquiries, even though perhaps we should. Its sorta like the parent who chooses between a suitable, honest, thoughtful answer or says, 'BECAUSE I SAID SO.' We scramble for the right words that will be honest and at the same time will provide an answer that is both suitable and comforting to the questioner. It's gymnastics, but, its what we do.

Gillian · October 2002

Mostly no, like most of the posts. Sometimes yes, depending on the circumstance - when the candidate was a good one and could use a little guidance and when I think that the guidance will be welcomed.

valentine · October 2002

If I interview a person for a position, I have a standard form letter I send them which goes something like this.

Thank you for applying for the bla bla position. I enjoyed meeting with you and learning more about your background. We had a lot of excellent candidates and it was a hard decision, but we have chosen someone who best fits our needs at the present time. Your resume will be kept on file for a year and should another position become available for which you are qualified, we will contact you. I wish you luck in your job search.

If it is just an application and I haven't met with the person, I send a post card acknowledging that the resume was received and they will be contacted if appropriate.

I send these letters as soon as possible after meeting with the person or when I know the application isn't right. I guess I've been lucky, but noone has ever called to question me about the hiring decision after I've sent the letter.

Paul in Cannon Beach · October 2002

Just this morning I had to let an in house applicant know he did not get the job. I discussed the general factors I used to make the decision: experience, abilities, education, etc.. but did not go into specifics.

I also told him that although he was not hired for this position, I was interested in having him start a training program that would prepare him for any future opportunities. The training program would include supervisor and intro to management material.

He seemed excited about that and handled the dissapointment of not being selected very well.

It seems there is a consensus (imagine that!) that we like to do what we can for applicants but stop short of going into detail about their limitations and deficiencies.

Paul

Don D · October 2002

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-07-02 AT 04:07PM (CST)[/font][p]Valentine: Playing devil's advocate and having heard this several times from the EEOC investigators; be sure your practice does put in place something that will do what your letter says you will do. You could have your hand called later by an applicant who you 'told' in a letter that her application/resume would be on file for a year and she would be called if.....If your practice allows that to slip through the cracks, as I suspect it might, you could be called to task by the EEOC. I would recommend culling from the letter ANYTHING that obligates you in any way. x:-)

valentine · October 2002

Excellent point, thank you. We do call applicants at a later time for other positions, mostly housekeeping and dining room as we are a retirement community, but usually they have found other positions by then. I am able to track and call people because our applications are computerized. However, I see your point and will review our letters to be sure we aren't promising what we can't deliver :-)

Cxjo · October 2002

I tend to do the same as eveyone else; a generic sort of TY letter to everyone who fills out an app or sends a resume (when I managed the Employment Office for a "4000 ee and 500 apps a week" organization we sent postcards - mid size with only 50 apps a week we are able to get by with the letters).

Like a previous poster I've worked in health care/retirement community and we tended to get applicants who were MUCH more vocal and DEMANDED to know why they weren't hired; invariably these tended to be individuals who were the cousin/sister/daughter/mother/friend/neighbor of an existing employee. I have had applicants come BACK to the office, come into my office and wave the "thanks but no thanks" letter in my face. I have been sworn at (!) when attempting to explain why they weren't hired.

I have spent an incredible amount of time with some individuals explaining why they werent hired and in THESE instances I read back to them right from the interview guide. We utilized behavioral based interiewing so I was able to pretty much read back to them the exact response they gave to a question.

One woman (who attempted to complete a new application every 3 months) argued with me over-and-over again about how she "never would have said that." With her it got to the point where I sent her several letters advising her NOT to apply at our organization anymore as we would not consider hiring her; in addition I TOLD her this in person and on the phone. I was pretty blunt in my letters and my comments to her; told her that in addition to the things she said in her interview (such as admitting to witnessing abuse of patients and not reporting it), the fact that she swore and cursed at me on xyz date, were reasons for the no-hire.

Come to think of it, I had to send this type of letter to probably 5 or so people over the course of 3 years........

Ahhhh -- more fun in HR!

Don D · October 2002

If an applicant came into my office and waved my letter at me and swore at me, I would calmly say, "You know, I'm a really perceptive person. I pretty much knew this would be your behavior pattern if we decided to hire you. And you've shown me that I was right. Now, I'd like for you to leave the building."

Cxjo · October 2002

Oh yes indeed Don -- those were pretty much the words I have used. Unfortunately, at this particualr company, HR was in the lower level, faaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrr removed from other people, no security and with a separate entrance door to the street (albeit locked from the outside, people had to be buzzed into the building). I must tell you that on several occassions, I got a bit afraid for my life as some of these threatening, scary people came in to apply for jobs or re-visit us with a question about why they weren't hired. Fortunately, I have always been able to diffuse escalting behaviors and managed to calm people down -- although I have had to escort people out (what i would have done had they not come with me is beyond me).

One time, a mother and daughter came in - the daughter was in her 20's - and the MOTHER began to question me about why her daughter wasn't hired! After explaing to her that it was between our company and her daughter, and I would not share that info with mama -- the MOTHER got wound up -- advanced on me -- and I closed my office door -- locked it - and called for our maintenance staff to come down and rescue me!

Paul in Cannon Beach · October 2002

UPDATE!!

Ok, the employee who interviewed and was not chosen for an in house position just quit unexpectedly. Interestingly, although I encouraged him to talk to a former staff member who had worked closely with him and could give him some excellent advice on what areas he needed to improve or work on, he never followed up.

His resignation came as a suprise but the way he handled it (missing work for a couple days and then walking in and quitting without notice) has confirmed that he does not have the qualities of integrity and responsibility that we were looking for.

Paul

Don D · October 2002

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-14-02 AT 03:10PM (CST)[/font][p]I don't know that that is an integrity issue. Most of us who are not chosen for an internal position we feel we should get might engage in a job search if we had an opportunity and were displeased to that extent. Unless he gave practically no notice, aha I see you say he did just that, I don't have a problem with a couple of days off to go on interviews. Who among us has not done that? The no notice is a bit tacky, but, would you want him there for two more weeks, slouching and moaning?

Paul in Cannon Beach · October 2002

I knew when I typed integrity that it would raise some eyebrows. I understand looking for another job. However, he left his supervisor in a total lurch and he knew that.

Its ok though. Makes it easy for me to reject him when he asks to come back in about 5 weeks.

Paul

Do you discuss hiring decisions?

Comments