Retaliation in the work place

Scribs · September 2002

6 days a go my boss unexpectantly came to my home on an Unrelated work call. My husband thought it was unappropriate for him to show up like that without calling first and promptly asked him to leave. Incidently i wasnt even there. My Boss was so upset by being asked to leave that with in an hour he called his secretary and demanded my work profile and financial break down of my job. He stated to her that he didnt want anyone that could treat him like that at work. (even tho it wasnt me, the employee that he had the argument with but rather my spouse)
The following day i was Let go due to fincial cut backs in the company. NO one in the work place that keeps the books had any indication that the company was in financil troubles.
He got rid of me so quickly that he didnt even follow the proceedure for termination. Supposedly 30 days notice is given with pay.
I however i recived just two weeks notice and he has left no instuctions on how i was to receive the other two weeks pay. Incidently he left for 3 weeks vacation 4 days after this incident. Which has left the company high and dry. The Secretary has documented that phone converstation and i have also kept a log of what happened the night before my unexpected dismissal and the days following it. I have an excellent work record.And have recived high payraises by my boss prior to this. Incidently my boss did leave me a excellent letter of recomendation.
I have followed the proceedures out lined in my handbook and I will be filling a formal Greivence with this company.
So i do need answers to these questions.
1 What do i need to prove Retaliation in the work place occured?
2 What options do i have if i can prove it
3 I dont wish to have my job reinstated after this. its caused too much embarrasement for me. What should i grieve for?
4 Where can i find legal representation for this type of situation?

PAhr · September 2002

First off I want to say that I truly feel for you. What was done to you is completely unfair and it sounds like your boss has very poor judgement. With that said, nothing you have described is illegal unless you feel the true motive behind the termination was for age, race, sex ,religous beliefs or marital status or if he terminated you after you reported sexual harassment or some violation of public policy. You have not mentioned any of these things ,therefore, there was no retaliation. You haven't said what state you are from but aside from having a contract, almost every state is at will, meaning they can hire and fire at will for no reason at all so long as it's not an illegal reason. So number 1, you can't prove retaliation because there wasn't any which makes number 2 moot. Number 3, I always thought to file a grievence it was to get a job back, but in any event you could always ask for the other two weeks pay you will miss due to the boss's short notice. And number 4, I don't think you will have much luck getting an attorney to take your case because nothing you have mentioned constitutes a big pay off from the company which ,let's be honest, is what a lawyer likes to see. One word of advise, try to get the reason for your termination notice in writing. If they write financial cut backs as the reason you should have no problems getting your unemployment benefits. That should at least ease the financial burden while looking for a new job.

Don D · September 2002

the above post sounds right on target to me. In my opinion, you will be ultimately ruled eligible for UI, regardless of the reason given by the company. If you have to, push it to the appeals hearing level and lay it out just like you did here. I bet against him even showing up at the hearing because he knows what you will say and knows he can't contradict it. Pure and simple; you are out of work through no fault of your own which equates to eligibility if you are otherwise monetarily qualified. Although I totally agree that the man showed poor judgement, I also can't help wondering what exactly pushed your husband to the point of 'telling the man to leave'. It might piss me off if my wife's boss showed up unannounced; however, I would not run him off unless he had a change of clothes under his arm.

Rexxies · September 2002

I agree w/everyone else. It sounds like an unfortunate situation, however, not necessarily actionable.

However, if they are saying that the company is in financial difficulties and they've laid you off, you are eligible for Unemployment Comp--that would be so, no matter what state you're in. Meanwhile, you should send a polite letter to HR, copying your boss, stating that you have received xx dollars however, you have not be paid out the remaining xx (whatever the figure and including any vacation/holiday/personal days you are eligible for) and that you would like a copy of your entire personnel record along with the final termination information. Companies pretty much have to give that to you w/in a reasonable time period (not more than 2 weeks).

But let's take the employment situation a step further. If they hire someone to replace you, then you might have something for wrongful discharge, especially since they've indicated they're laying you off and your appraisals are fine and you've gotten raises (I assume) since you've been at the company. It's always easier to prove, however, if you are in a protected class i.e. age, race, sex, national origin, whatever.

But I'm w/the last guy--what did your spouse say and/or what did the boss say to your spouse that you think set this off? Was there some sort of inappropriate comments made by your spouse? You need to be realistic about that and how it will affect any future dealings with this company and your former boss.

PAhr · September 2002

Rexxis, only two problems with your post. The first is that even if he hires someone new to replace her that same day it does not make it a wrongfull termination. She would need to be fired for an illegal reason to make it a wrongfull termination, which from her post she was not. Her boss can choose to fire her for whatever reason like say he doesn't like her shirt, her car is ugly, she chews with her mouth open or whatever other stupid reason he has as long as it is not an illegal one. He is also not obligated to tell her the real reason why he fired her. So long as he tells her she is let go for financial reasons and tells any prospective employers the same, he has not broke any laws. The second problem is her personnel records. Those are company property and do not have to be turned over unless a judge orders them to. You are correct about the other items such as vacation days and such. All must be given to you in a timely manner. Most states have laws about how many days an employer has to give you your final pay check.

Rexxies · September 2002

Actually PAHR, you're incorrect about personnel records. They are the history of the employee with that company and under the Federal Privacy Act, the individual employee is entitled to a copy of them.

Secondly, all I said was she may have a case for wrongful termination--if they told her they fired her for financial reasons and then hired someone else to replace her. It's not only illogical (and would be stupid) but if as she stated, her employment with the company was in good standing e.g. good relationships, appraisals and raises up until the time of her termination, then there's a chance that could fly. But wrongful termination is more often the most difficult to prove...it's easier to hang on either a Title VII, ADA, ADEA claim than wrongful discharge.

Don D · September 2002

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In the state where I live there is no such thing as wrongful discharge since this is an at-will state. Of course there is the illegal termination, based on the protected groups already stated. But, here, and in lots of other states, the employer may fire for any reason, accept those covered by statute as illegal, or for no reason at all. Many states have statutes allowing employees access to their own personnel records, but mine does not. In this state, as well as some others, an employee or ex-employee does not have an absolute 'right' to have or review their file or a copy of it, nor is it available to them upon demand. Whether or not it makes sense to comply is an argument for another post. There is no federal privacy act statute putting a personnel file in the public domain or making it readily available to anyone else outside the company. Although there are always the arguments for doing it anyway since it can be obtained through subpoena. Neither do we, nor employers in many other states, have to state or give or provide or copy one on a reason for termination.

PAhr · September 2002

Rexxies, although you are partially correct about getting copies of the personnel records, that only applies to fourteen states (Alaska, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oregon, Rhoad Island, South Dakota, tennessee, Utah, and Wisconsin) and it is the employee's responsibility to make these copies in all states. Some states require that the employee pay the copying costs such as Tennessee. North Dakota allows you to make copies at your own expense, but it doesn't apply to anyone employed in North Dakota, only state employees. South Dakota and Utah allow you to make copies but only if you are a public employee. Out of all those states, all but four (Alaska, Maine, Tennessee and Utah) have restrictions on exactly what the employee can have copies of. I'm a little suprised because the state of Massachusetts only allows an employee the the right to SEE their personnel file and to insert rebuttals of any information with which they desire. This does not apply to employees of private colleges or universities who are tenured, on tenure track or who have positions or responsibilities similar to those in tenure track positions. You should know this since that is where you are from. I wouldn't want someone working for me who just handed out copies right and left.

Rexxies · September 2002

PAhr--I bow to your apparent expertise in the area of personnel records. I've only been in MA a year and was in SC and IL before that. I originally stated that the person had a right to their file--and not knowing what state she was in, left it at that. I believe every employee should have a copy of their file--when I left my job in IL and SC I asked for copies and got them. As an HR Mgr, it's my job to insure there is nothing in the employee record in HR that the employee doesn't have a copy of (corrective actions, performance appraisals, pay actions, etc.) and therefore nothing they couldn't have a copy of. It isn't and shouldn't be a big secret and I've had employees with huge disciplinary files, lawsuits, etc. And I don't 'hand out' files to anyone but the employee upon their written request so didn't appreciate the last comment you made.

> Rexxies, although you are partially correct about getting copies of
>the personnel records, that only applies to fourteen states (Alaska,
>Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota,
>Oregon, Rhoad Island, South Dakota, tennessee, Utah, and Wisconsin)
>and it is the employee's responsibility to make these copies in all
>states. Some states require that the employee pay the copying costs
>such as Tennessee. North Dakota allows you to make copies at your own
>expense, but it doesn't apply to anyone employed in North Dakota, only
>state employees. South Dakota and Utah allow you to make copies but
>only if you are a public employee. Out of all those states, all but
>four (Alaska, Maine, Tennessee and Utah) have restrictions on exactly
>what the employee can have copies of. I'm a little suprised because
>the state of Massachusetts only allows an employee the the right to
>SEE their personnel file and to insert rebuttals of any information
>with which they desire. This does not apply to employees of private
>colleges or universities who are tenured, on tenure track or who have
>positions or responsibilities similar to those in tenure track
>positions. You should know this since that is where you are from. I
>wouldn't want someone working for me who just handed out copies right
>and left.

Scribs · September 2002

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-25-02 AT 02:57PM (CST)[/font][p]1 I work for a Preist.

2 Husband threw him out becuase he pushed past my husband at the door. and my husband didnt give him permission to come in. We were not expecting company and i was not approrately dressed to recive guests.

NO im not a member of his church

3 He called the secretary and said he was insulted and didnt want anyone working with that would treat him like that. I never got to say a word to him.
4 He snuck around the hiring thing by calling up the old maintence man that quit there a few years ago and told him that he wouldnt have to sign paperwork to work there.(ie Maintence man is on disabilty and can NOT work) He has told him to work as a volunteer. the Preist has promised to pay him in cash. (When has a volunteer gotten paid?)incidently hes paying the MAN more then he paid me.

4 Ive spoken to the Finance Council and bookkeepers THey assure me the books are better then they have been in years. SO there goes the argument of Financial Cut backs.

5 THe preist didnt have the nerve to tell the parish that he was letting me go before he left. They are all in an up roar over this. And are just now seeing my termination notice. They where not notified of any financial criss. BECAUSE there isnt one.. (sorry im mad as all hell)

6 He hired a part time office help who is catholic and shes been there 6 months. ive been there 2.6 years. I lost my job first but she kept hers.

7 ive received the top pay advances each time my reviews came up.Both of my reviews where outstanding.

8. My boss did leave me a wonderful letter of Employment, I could almost run for president with it.

9 He did away with all councils ie parish ,advisory so i couldnt nor could the parish argue his authority.

10 i have spoken to HR for my dept they said to file the greivence forms.

Don D · September 2002

It is best for your mental and physical health to get past this quickly and move on. Easier said than done. But, one surefire way to continue the anguish, stress and perhaps depression is to continue to fight with the priest or the church about this. Even if you were to return, neither you nor he would ever again be happy with the relationship. Your skill level will enable you to find a more fun and suitable place to work. In the meanwhile file your UI claim on the first Monday following your discharge date. I'm not familiar with the concept of a Catholic Church being on dire straights financially. Sort of an oxymoron there. We all agree, whether priest or not, that he had no business showing up at your place and certainly not pushing his way on in, as if invited and certainly not firing you because he wasn't welcome at your home. You certainly answered my suggestion about him having a change of clothes under his arm. A priest wouldn't do that, now would he? It won't surprise you to hear that lots of priests have 'found themselves' to be above the law in the past several months, so don't expect anything to happen with the cash payment of wages to the volunteer. I think the best thing you can shout aloud tonight in the middle of your living room is, "I can't believe I worked there! What an experience that was." And say no more about it. If you allow it to, it will eat you alive. If you absolutely must have your say, write him a detailed letter full of all the facts with a copy to whatever administrative board or parish officers you can determine the addresses of. If nothing else, it will be therapeutic for you to do so. Good luck.

PAhr · September 2002

One last thing for Scribs. I get the impression that you are not Catholic. If you feel you were discriminated against because of you religion and were ultimately fired for this reason you may have a case. But the problem is that the state rarely interferes with religion and who they choose and choose not to employee. You can make the call on how to proceed. I only have one other thing. You said in your first post "Incidently i wasnt even there." but in your more recent post you said "We were not expecting company and i was not approrately dressed to recive guests.". You need to make sure if you want to persue a lawsuit that the story is the same every time.

Scribs · September 2002

I was 3 rooms away in the bathroom at the time.
by the time i got out of there it was over with and he was leaving.

Crout · September 2002

Mam'm, I am truly sorry for what happened to you. What Don and PA posted above is very sound advice, and you would do well to follow it. I would like to expand on something Don suggested. Write your whole story down as completely and clearly as you can and send it off to the Archbishop. It may help you to receive your severance. Good luck and take care.

Retaliation in the work place

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