Firing Fears

System · July 2001

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-12-01 AT 08:16PM (CST)[/font][p]Last week's HRhero.com poll indicated that 70% of you have at least one employee in your company who needs to and could be fired, but the company won't because it's afraid of a lawsuit.

It's frustrating and draining to have that weight hanging over you when you KNOW the employee really does need the boot!

Who are the "fireproof" employees in your company? What makes your company afraid of firing them?

sonny · July 2001

Fireproof? Significant others/family members of local elected government officials. One dept. tried, but miraculously there was a transfer to another department (there was no opening and HR knew nothing about it) Talk about HR frustration!!!

Dottie · July 2001

This is a recurring problem. The usual scenario is that HR is contacted when the supervisor/manager has reached the end of his/her rope with the employee and wants to fire them. When HR asks if any documentation of counseling/disciplinary meetings with the employee exist, the answer is usually "no." The next question usually regards whether or not the employee is in a protected class. Since there are so many ways in which people are protected, this is usually the case. At this point HR tries to direct the manager to begin corrective measures with the employee and give him/her a chance to correct the problem while documenting it. It's just tough because at this point the manager would rather just skip all of these steps and "get rid" of the problem. Consequently, we almost always have someone who is working for us that shouldn't be any longer.

Don Avery · July 2001

Yeah,and because the Manager hasn't done his/her job, HR gets the reputation of never letting Managers fire anyone. Whenever I got that complaint, I immediately suggested that we meet together with the Manager's boss to ascertain if HR was being an obsructionist. Rarely did anyone seize that opportunity.

MKT · July 2001

A customer service manager who has violated numerous procedures, placing the organization in potentially damaging situations; lied to customers on several occasions; revealed confidential information about employees in her department to other employees in her department; had Internet privileges revoked due to excessive use; used her position for (inappropriate) personal gain; rarely works a 40 hour week; and has been insubordinate countless times. There are other performance issues, but, the bottom line is that her supervisor will not manage the situation. She has been on 2 performance improvement plans (in only 1 year of employment) during which her supervisor provided no feedback to her and told me 'as far as he knows, she is doing fine' during the plans. However, I present specific instances to him where she is in violation of the plan, and, he defends her. He does not take action when he should, rather, he let numerous opportunities, to terminate, pass and wants to terminate at a later, inappropriate time. In addition to extremely poor management of the performance, she is pregnant (a surrogate for the second time in 2 years). There have been no consequences for her actions or her manager's poor management.

Down_the_Middle · July 2001

As is being suggested, all of us have "weak links" in our employee population that warrant their walking papers. Since HR becomes the gatekeeper to ensure that terminations are handled properly, we frequently halt the process of a discharge due to lack of meaningful documentation. The problem, however, in my opinion, is the reluctance of the managerial staff to address performance issues in a timely and appropriate way. Waiting til the straw breaks the camel's back is far too common and then it's a rush to de-employ the malingerer and HR steps in to limit organizational liability. I think fear of lawsuits is a factor for many managers and they simply become complacent until they have no recourse. Lawsuits disclose many things that department managers get nervous about and I understand their reluctance and intimidation. HR is certainly concerned about lawsuits altho this gets mis-read by management as being fearful of getting sued vs. assessing the odds. My organization stopped feeling intimidated by threats of lawsuits a number of years ago, by demonstrating that we'd go to court if necessary to do the right thing. Altho lawsuits have not disappeared, our workforce knows that this "fear of being sued" is no longer a valid threat to the employer.

Rockie · July 2001

I agree with everyone's points. Most of the problems with employees arise because supervisors have not been pro-active in addressing issues with problem employees, are afraid to confront them by disciplinary action and insist on giving them inappropriate performance evaluations (too high) in order to avoid yet another confrontation. I can't tell you how many times I have managers come to me and want to terminate someone for some "offense". When I ask for documentation, they have none and when I pull the previous performance evaluation, they are a "sterling" employee on paper. I then have to advise the manager that we can't do anything with this person until they start the documentation process. I am a big believer in documentation and I am attempting to educate my managers via training programs on writing performance evaluations, disciplinary actions and interviewing skills. It is an ongoing educational process. I also try to include in my training the various laws and how they can impact an organization. Managers are amazed at what they can and can't do in the employment arena. Many of them have not been properly trained in being a "manager" of people, but are thrust into the supervisory role with no preparation.

As long as you are properly documented, most of the time you don't have issues with employees threatening lawsuits. You can't live your life in Human Resources being afraid of lawsuits. Just about anyone can file a lawsuit if they feel they are "wronged", but if you have your ducks in a row, most of the time the charges are unfounded.

bsa · July 2001

Right On Rockie --- You get my vote!!

Mimi · August 2001

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-07-01 AT 04:12PM (CST)[/font][p]Need some advice guys - recall seeing discussions on employees arrested and how best to handle termination - are we safe with the "no call, no show for 3 days" policy to terminate? A relative called initially to say the employee was in jail but, of course, we have not heard from the employee. There is no doubt the employee has been arrested but we don't know for what. However, this is a golden opportunity to solve our problem with this problem employee . Appreciate advice ASAP as the 3 days are up tomorrow.

System · August 2001

Mimi,

I did a quick search on the forum (using the Search button up top) and found these two relevent threads:

employee arrests:
[url]http://www.hrhero.com/employersforum/DCForumID14/173.html[/url]

Employee Incarceration
[url]http://www.hrhero.com/employersforum/DCForumID14/49.html[/url]

Hope they help!

Christy Reeder
Website Managing Editor
[url]www.HRhero.com[/url]

PMI · August 2001

Ditch him, Mimi!

Firing Fears

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